Comments on: Parking Tickets and the Consent of the Governed Part 2 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/ Peaceful Evolution Thu, 17 May 2012 00:31:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: NJLiberty http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75758 NJLiberty Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:07:21 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75758 There is no compelling reason that you wouldn't own the car. If you offered payment for it and the owner of the car accepted your payment for it, then it is yours, regardless of what the State may claim by "requiring" you to have yet another worthless piece of paper. They can require whatever they wish. That doesn't change my ownership of it. I own a lot of things the State says I can't have without their express permission by some piece of paper or another. I still own them and still don't have the piece of paper for them that the State requires. Whether they acknowledge my ownership doesn't matter much to me. When I bought my last car I didn't contract with the State to buy it. I contracted with another individual. The car didn't belong to the State then, and it doesn't now. They can make whatever claim they wish otherwise, based on their desire for me to have a piece of paper, but it doesn't change my actual ownership. If they wish to come exercise their claim to my property they certainly can try, but I wouldn't recommend it. There is no compelling reason that you wouldn't own the car. If you offered payment for it and the owner of the car accepted your payment for it, then it is yours, regardless of what the State may claim by "requiring" you to have yet another worthless piece of paper.

They can require whatever they wish. That doesn't change my ownership of it. I own a lot of things the State says I can't have without their express permission by some piece of paper or another. I still own them and still don't have the piece of paper for them that the State requires. Whether they acknowledge my ownership doesn't matter much to me.

When I bought my last car I didn't contract with the State to buy it. I contracted with another individual. The car didn't belong to the State then, and it doesn't now. They can make whatever claim they wish otherwise, based on their desire for me to have a piece of paper, but it doesn't change my actual ownership. If they wish to come exercise their claim to my property they certainly can try, but I wouldn't recommend it.

]]> By: Chris http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75734 Chris Sun, 18 May 2008 23:20:41 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75734 Thanks, kothjjh. It's been long enough since I've heard this that I had all but forgotten it. If what I heard was correct, you can use real money (as opposed to legal tender) and buy directly from the factory in order to get the MCO/MSO... supposedly. Thanks, kothjjh. It's been long enough since I've heard this that I had all but forgotten it. If what I heard was correct, you can use real money (as opposed to legal tender) and buy directly from the factory in order to get the MCO/MSO… supposedly.

]]> By: kothjjh http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75733 kothjjh Sun, 18 May 2008 04:32:51 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75733 Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin / Manufacturer's Statement of Origin. Apparently if you don't physically obtain an MSO (Manufacturer Statement of Origin) when you "purchase" a car. It's not really your car. Basically the state gets the MSO when you get a loan for a new car, makes a microfiche copy of it, and then shreds the original so there is no way for you to get it. Now, because you don't physically hold your MSO, you are required to pay the government "rent" to own your car...hence registration fees and taxes. 2.)In my state the only way to do this is by going out of state pay for the car,van any thing that is of personal use not for work or for commercial use and only driver away if you have the MSO in hand laws requiring Certificates of Title, Registration of automobiles, Licensing of "Drivers," compulsory liability insurance, and a myriad of other regulations and restrictions upon the people? The answer is, "By carefully and cleverly crafting the law so that the people are led to believe that such laws apply to everyone. If you do not have the MSO for your car you dont own it is the States,have a drivers license you have waived your common law rights. by getting any licensing you no longer have the rights you have privilege. Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin / Manufacturer's Statement of Origin.

Apparently if you don't physically obtain an MSO (Manufacturer Statement of Origin) when you "purchase" a car. It's not really your car. Basically the state gets the MSO when you get a loan for a new car, makes a microfiche copy of it, and then shreds the original so there is no way for you to get it. Now, because you don't physically hold your MSO, you are required to pay the government "rent" to own your car…hence registration fees and taxes.

2.)In my state the only way to do this is by going out of state pay for the car,van any thing that is of personal use not for work or for commercial use and only driver away if you have the MSO in hand

laws requiring Certificates of Title, Registration of automobiles, Licensing of "Drivers," compulsory liability insurance, and a myriad of other regulations and restrictions upon the people?

The answer is, "By carefully and cleverly crafting the law so that the people are led to believe that such laws apply to everyone.

If you do not have the MSO for your car you dont own it is the States,have a drivers license you have waived your common law rights. by getting any licensing you no longer have the rights you have privilege.

]]> By: Ian http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75685 Ian Fri, 25 Apr 2008 12:10:29 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75685 I considered it, but bureaucrats aren't worth the $. I considered it, but bureaucrats aren't worth the $.

]]> By: Joephus http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75684 Joephus Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:47:06 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75684 Ian, I believe there is a typo in your post. You made it sound as though you used the U.S. Postal Service to send this letter. You meant UPS, right? Ian, I believe there is a typo in your post. You made it sound as though you used the U.S. Postal Service to send this letter. You meant UPS, right?

]]> By: Tina http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75668 Tina Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:40:35 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75668 Very interested to see if they respond and legally they should,but none of us have any control over their regal sense of privilege. As the same ones who would deny us the right to know, are protecting the very beast system that would seek to limit them as well-being they are PUBLIC offices, funded by PUBLIC dollars and are legally deemed under our Rule of Law to be open to PUBLIC scrutiny to insure a democratic Republic they if performing their duties ethically have no qualms about transparency. Unfortunately, the courts are based upon INTERPRETATION which leaves great latitude for the "judge". Invariably when one is inundated with daily changes in the law it is easy to become lost in the maze of legalese and readily become 'ignorant'of the law-and the ability to wield a broad sword even if arbitrary laws are being interpreted-leaves the common person at a grave disadvantage. One needs to be well versed in courtroom to have any chance of success. Not that it cannot be done, but my experience has shown me that if you represent yourself effectively without licensed counsel than they WILL MAKE IT AS DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE. Making sure you are the last case-lest the public see a strange one who fights as a David against the Goliath...and it deeply troubles tptb if one is successful and poignant-as it stands on truth-showing them for the HOLLOW SYSTEM they honor and whore for. I have even had large men in my face shaking tickets that I was "going to contest, and actually plead NOT GUILTY on this...!!!" To wit I replied, "Well, you felt the need to write it and I did not litter." and preceded to win. But I noted the anger in the PA, in the judge, in the cop who wrote it, and the 10 or so officers acting quite cocky sure their compatriot would win-it was around 500 fine and they had agreed he was going to take them to lunch and little ole me shut them down...one of a few-but you will be harassed and possibly worse-comes with the turf-so know this and make your choices-pick battles wisely as there will be many and may they cease when all have what divine Providence has granted all men and women. Very interested to see if they respond and legally they should,but none of us have any control over their regal sense of privilege. As the same ones who would deny us the right to know, are protecting the very beast system that would seek to limit them as well-being they are PUBLIC offices, funded by PUBLIC dollars and are legally deemed under our Rule of Law to be open to PUBLIC scrutiny to insure a democratic Republic they if performing their duties ethically have no qualms about transparency. Unfortunately, the courts are based upon INTERPRETATION which leaves great latitude for the "judge". Invariably when one is inundated with daily changes in the law it is easy to become lost in the maze of legalese and readily become 'ignorant'of the law-and the ability to wield a broad sword even if arbitrary laws are being interpreted-leaves the common person at a grave disadvantage. One needs to be well versed in courtroom to have any chance of success. Not that it cannot be done, but my experience has shown me that if you represent yourself effectively without licensed counsel than they WILL MAKE IT AS DIFFICULT AS POSSIBLE. Making sure you are the last case-lest the public see a strange one who fights as a David against the Goliath…and it deeply troubles tptb if one is successful and poignant-as it stands on truth-showing them for the HOLLOW SYSTEM they honor and whore for. I have even had large men in my face shaking tickets that I was "going to contest, and actually plead NOT GUILTY on this…!!!" To wit I replied, "Well, you felt the need to write it and I did not litter." and preceded to win. But I noted the anger in the PA, in the judge, in the cop who wrote it, and the 10 or so officers acting quite cocky sure their compatriot would win-it was around 500 fine and they had agreed he was going to take them to lunch and little ole me shut them down…one of a few-but you will be harassed and possibly worse-comes with the turf-so know this and make your choices-pick battles wisely as there will be many and may they cease when all have what divine Providence has granted all men and women.

]]> By: Ian http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75666 Ian Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:03:42 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75666 Valid contracts require you comprehend what you agree to. They are also not coerced. Drivers Licensing fails both of those litmus tests. Valid contracts require you comprehend what you agree to. They are also not coerced. Drivers Licensing fails both of those litmus tests.

]]> By: Chris http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75665 Chris Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:12:19 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75665 I don't even live in NH, so the vehicle codes are probably set up differently. At least the impression of the written and driving test is to make sure that you can follow the laws. My signature is also on my license, which I would assume makes it a contract. Perhaps I need to do some research on this if/when I have some free time... I don't even live in NH, so the vehicle codes are probably set up differently. At least the impression of the written and driving test is to make sure that you can follow the laws. My signature is also on my license, which I would assume makes it a contract. Perhaps I need to do some research on this if/when I have some free time…

]]> By: Ian http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75664 Ian Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:15:50 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75664 I don't recall that; did you? Besides, I don't have an NH license. I don't recall that; did you?

Besides, I don't have an NH license.

]]> By: Chris http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-75663 Chris Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:33:29 +0000 http://freekeene.com/2008/04/04/parking-tickets-and-the-consent-of-the-governed-part-2/#comment-75663 I'll admit to not having read the previous letter since I have just found this site, but if this was for a parking place where the rules were posted then you agreed to follow those rules when you received your license. I'm not a lawyer, but that is my first impression. I'll admit to not having read the previous letter since I have just found this site, but if this was for a parking place where the rules were posted then you agreed to follow those rules when you received your license.

I'm not a lawyer, but that is my first impression.

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