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	<title>Comments on: Revoking my Libertarian Party &#8220;Life Membership&#8221;, a.k.a. Politics Sucks!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/</link>
	<description>Peaceful Evolution</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 17:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kurtis Bottke</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75737</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurtis Bottke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 09:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75737</guid>
		<description>Peacefully rejecting societies laws, while commendable and attention getting, always lands those involved in one place. The government's jails. There is no safety in numbers either. FSLDS demonstrated that. I'm afraid Ian and the Free Stater's are putting the cart before the horse. The only way to be free is to repeal those laws that are so offensive, and the only way to do that is through the political process. Nobodies going to be free sitting in a jail cell. And those people would be much more effective proponents of freedom if they weren't locked up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peacefully rejecting societies laws, while commendable and attention getting, always lands those involved in one place. The government&#8217;s jails. There is no safety in numbers either. FSLDS demonstrated that. I&#8217;m afraid Ian and the Free Stater&#8217;s are putting the cart before the horse. The only way to be free is to repeal those laws that are so offensive, and the only way to do that is through the political process. Nobodies going to be free sitting in a jail cell. And those people would be much more effective proponents of freedom if they weren&#8217;t locked up.</p>
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		<title>By: jeepndesert</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75736</link>
		<dc:creator>jeepndesert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 06:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75736</guid>
		<description>I do think the LP needs to be pro-gay, pro-choice, anti-drug war to differ itself from the republican party and hopefully attract liberals as well who believe in smaller, not minarchist, government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think the LP needs to be pro-gay, pro-choice, anti-drug war to differ itself from the republican party and hopefully attract liberals as well who believe in smaller, not minarchist, government.</p>
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		<title>By: jeepndesert</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75735</link>
		<dc:creator>jeepndesert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 06:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75735</guid>
		<description>I'm glad the LP has become more of a pragmatic party. it's only natural for its continued growth.

Harry Browne was a great candidate. And he had a very nicely built and maintained web site.

However, he had no revolution. Who knew Ron Paul would start a revolution.

Nonetheless, even the success of Ron Paul's campaign didn't get him elected.

To be electable, libertarians are going to have to moderate some.

I left the party in 2002 because I hated who I had become. I had a one-track minarchist mind. I couldn't see anyone else's opinion. Since I left the party and stayed away from politics, I've grown to support Social Security, nationalized health insurance, and spending to help us on the hydrogen highway with the hydrogen internal combustion engine.

I have no desire to get rid of the U.S. Post Office. But I do still see a need to get rid of the U.S. Dept. of Education and either scale back or get rid of other organizations. I think too the DoD could serve for homeland security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad the LP has become more of a pragmatic party. it&#8217;s only natural for its continued growth.</p>
<p>Harry Browne was a great candidate. And he had a very nicely built and maintained web site.</p>
<p>However, he had no revolution. Who knew Ron Paul would start a revolution.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, even the success of Ron Paul&#8217;s campaign didn&#8217;t get him elected.</p>
<p>To be electable, libertarians are going to have to moderate some.</p>
<p>I left the party in 2002 because I hated who I had become. I had a one-track minarchist mind. I couldn&#8217;t see anyone else&#8217;s opinion. Since I left the party and stayed away from politics, I&#8217;ve grown to support Social Security, nationalized health insurance, and spending to help us on the hydrogen highway with the hydrogen internal combustion engine.</p>
<p>I have no desire to get rid of the U.S. Post Office. But I do still see a need to get rid of the U.S. Dept. of Education and either scale back or get rid of other organizations. I think too the DoD could serve for homeland security.</p>
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		<title>By: cyberdoo78</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75730</link>
		<dc:creator>cyberdoo78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 21:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75730</guid>
		<description>While I am all for cooperation with others of a similar mind. I am offended and insulted by those who ask me to "shoot" for someone or for a subject because it will advanced the cause of liberty.

"Shooting" someone, more commonly refered to as voting, is objectively immoral. Whenever you "shoot" for someone or for some subject, there always remains the possibility that you will accidently "shoot" someone who wasn't even "shooting" for anyone or subject.

I understand those who do "shoot" do so in self-defense, and that is objectively moral. If however in defending one's self, you harm another who is not "shooting" for someone or subject, you have commited the objectively immoral act of initating force, thereby nullifing your 'self-defense' action.

Those, like myself, who choose not to "shoot" for people or subjects, do so because it is objectively immoral to "shoot" against people who are not "shooting".

"Shooting event", or elections, apply only to those who consent, and not to those who do not consent. This is what was meant when it was said 'governments derive their just power only by the consent of the governed'. If you "shoot" then you agree to the out come of the "shooting event", and if you do not "shoot" you are not consenting to the outcome of the "shooting event". 

Often it is said that we are ignoring 'government' things when we choose not to "shoot". I ask you to look at it from another view. Can the "shooting event" exist if there are no "shooters"? Some might answer yes, and to them I ask, if there is no structural support, does a house stand? The answer is no. Logically, then if there are no "shooters" then there is no "shooting event". 

What you have after there are no "shooters" are individuals who are no longer pretending to represent anyone but themselves, which let us face it is what they are doing now.

I choose not to debate my belief systems, and instead try to educate the masses. If you believe "Shooting" is okay, great. I only hope that you will listen, really listen, rather then hearing, and let logic guide you.

It is true, stopping "shooting" today won't stop things today, even Rome wasn't built in a day, won't you feel just a bit better knowing you are no longer acting objectively immoral, and acting more objectively moral?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I am all for cooperation with others of a similar mind. I am offended and insulted by those who ask me to &#8220;shoot&#8221; for someone or for a subject because it will advanced the cause of liberty.</p>
<p>&#8220;Shooting&#8221; someone, more commonly refered to as voting, is objectively immoral. Whenever you &#8220;shoot&#8221; for someone or for some subject, there always remains the possibility that you will accidently &#8220;shoot&#8221; someone who wasn&#8217;t even &#8220;shooting&#8221; for anyone or subject.</p>
<p>I understand those who do &#8220;shoot&#8221; do so in self-defense, and that is objectively moral. If however in defending one&#8217;s self, you harm another who is not &#8220;shooting&#8221; for someone or subject, you have commited the objectively immoral act of initating force, thereby nullifing your &#8217;self-defense&#8217; action.</p>
<p>Those, like myself, who choose not to &#8220;shoot&#8221; for people or subjects, do so because it is objectively immoral to &#8220;shoot&#8221; against people who are not &#8220;shooting&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Shooting event&#8221;, or elections, apply only to those who consent, and not to those who do not consent. This is what was meant when it was said &#8216;governments derive their just power only by the consent of the governed&#8217;. If you &#8220;shoot&#8221; then you agree to the out come of the &#8220;shooting event&#8221;, and if you do not &#8220;shoot&#8221; you are not consenting to the outcome of the &#8220;shooting event&#8221;. </p>
<p>Often it is said that we are ignoring &#8216;government&#8217; things when we choose not to &#8220;shoot&#8221;. I ask you to look at it from another view. Can the &#8220;shooting event&#8221; exist if there are no &#8220;shooters&#8221;? Some might answer yes, and to them I ask, if there is no structural support, does a house stand? The answer is no. Logically, then if there are no &#8220;shooters&#8221; then there is no &#8220;shooting event&#8221;. </p>
<p>What you have after there are no &#8220;shooters&#8221; are individuals who are no longer pretending to represent anyone but themselves, which let us face it is what they are doing now.</p>
<p>I choose not to debate my belief systems, and instead try to educate the masses. If you believe &#8220;Shooting&#8221; is okay, great. I only hope that you will listen, really listen, rather then hearing, and let logic guide you.</p>
<p>It is true, stopping &#8220;shooting&#8221; today won&#8217;t stop things today, even Rome wasn&#8217;t built in a day, won&#8217;t you feel just a bit better knowing you are no longer acting objectively immoral, and acting more objectively moral?</p>
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		<title>By: Dallas</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75713</link>
		<dc:creator>Dallas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 21:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75713</guid>
		<description>I do not know about the Free State Project. It is a great concept but I do not really want to pledge my future to New Hampshire. If I just dislike New Hampshire or cannot make a living there. I would just like to see a collapse of the government after competing currency are established. Then people can pick up the services that government was doing and as long as the currency is stable. I imagine there would be relatively little chaos as long as the money is intact. Even shortages of local water could be taken up by bottled water until an entrepreneur came along and provided local water, maybe it would even be shared? Who knows but I agree that the LP is not doing things fast or effectively enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know about the Free State Project. It is a great concept but I do not really want to pledge my future to New Hampshire. If I just dislike New Hampshire or cannot make a living there. I would just like to see a collapse of the government after competing currency are established. Then people can pick up the services that government was doing and as long as the currency is stable. I imagine there would be relatively little chaos as long as the money is intact. Even shortages of local water could be taken up by bottled water until an entrepreneur came along and provided local water, maybe it would even be shared? Who knows but I agree that the LP is not doing things fast or effectively enough.</p>
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		<title>By: BrowncoatMarc</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75711</link>
		<dc:creator>BrowncoatMarc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 16:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75711</guid>
		<description>I sent an email to the local party leaders and the State party leader in Florida. This is not the position of someone who wants liberty and I think I will be dropping out of doing any thing for the LP from now on. I think I will just work on the Science FIction Convention a friend of mine has and Raise my son to love liberty and work on my wife to move to NH. Thanks for a great show you guys do.  www.ancientcitycon.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sent an email to the local party leaders and the State party leader in Florida. This is not the position of someone who wants liberty and I think I will be dropping out of doing any thing for the LP from now on. I think I will just work on the Science FIction Convention a friend of mine has and Raise my son to love liberty and work on my wife to move to NH. Thanks for a great show you guys do.  <a href="http://www.ancientcitycon.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.ancientcitycon.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dan Garthwaite</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75710</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Garthwaite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 16:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75710</guid>
		<description>Testing wordpress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Testing wordpress.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75709</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75709</guid>
		<description>Freedom will not be achieved by begging.  

Just because certain businessmen obey their masters, does not make me unfree.

I may not be totally free yet, but we are getting closer all the time.

I do not want to war against a government.  You should know as a libertarian what happens when you have a war on something...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freedom will not be achieved by begging.  </p>
<p>Just because certain businessmen obey their masters, does not make me unfree.</p>
<p>I may not be totally free yet, but we are getting closer all the time.</p>
<p>I do not want to war against a government.  You should know as a libertarian what happens when you have a war on something&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75708</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75708</guid>
		<description>Ian, how are you living free when you pay federal income taxes (if you do), or line the government's pocket with every gallon of gas you buy, or pay to renew your drivers license and plate tabs, or any other of the government imposed fees and taxes? 

How are you living free when the dollars you use to buy food are worth less and less every day because of the government's war funded with borrowed funny money?

And how will you be free if the federal government erodes personal freedom even further, and locks you up "claiming" illegal wire tape evidence?

How are you free when your corn flakes are overpriced because of subsidized ethanol production, while you can't put cheap Brazilian ethanol in your tank because of federal import tariffs?

I'm not saying stop what you're doing for your self, your town, and your state - it's great. Hell, Obama got to where he is almost exclusively through local action - it's very powerful.

But it is united action - local action for a common cause. The federal government won't go away if you ignore it - it will only grow. And even Reps/Dems have trouble getting their way against the other - and they are large organized groups.

All I'm saying is this - you have a large audience with your show, and can influence many people. Encourage your specific flavor of liberty, but don't hurt other flavors of liberty. Look, if an LP candidate became president, the things you are after in Keene would get much closer to reality than if a republican or a democrat were president - even if that  LP president only agreed with you on 90% of the issues.

So yes - liberty through localism - and liberty through the LP - and liberty through ANYTHING that is better than where we are today - because the war against the federal government won't be won all at once - or through ignoring it - but only by winning every battle we can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, how are you living free when you pay federal income taxes (if you do), or line the government&#8217;s pocket with every gallon of gas you buy, or pay to renew your drivers license and plate tabs, or any other of the government imposed fees and taxes? </p>
<p>How are you living free when the dollars you use to buy food are worth less and less every day because of the government&#8217;s war funded with borrowed funny money?</p>
<p>And how will you be free if the federal government erodes personal freedom even further, and locks you up &#8220;claiming&#8221; illegal wire tape evidence?</p>
<p>How are you free when your corn flakes are overpriced because of subsidized ethanol production, while you can&#8217;t put cheap Brazilian ethanol in your tank because of federal import tariffs?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying stop what you&#8217;re doing for your self, your town, and your state - it&#8217;s great. Hell, Obama got to where he is almost exclusively through local action - it&#8217;s very powerful.</p>
<p>But it is united action - local action for a common cause. The federal government won&#8217;t go away if you ignore it - it will only grow. And even Reps/Dems have trouble getting their way against the other - and they are large organized groups.</p>
<p>All I&#8217;m saying is this - you have a large audience with your show, and can influence many people. Encourage your specific flavor of liberty, but don&#8217;t hurt other flavors of liberty. Look, if an LP candidate became president, the things you are after in Keene would get much closer to reality than if a republican or a democrat were president - even if that  LP president only agreed with you on 90% of the issues.</p>
<p>So yes - liberty through localism - and liberty through the LP - and liberty through ANYTHING that is better than where we are today - because the war against the federal government won&#8217;t be won all at once - or through ignoring it - but only by winning every battle we can.</p>
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		<title>By: Liberty Crusader</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/04/28/revoking-my-libertarian-party-life-membership-aka-politics-sucks/#comment-75707</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberty Crusader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 01:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=352#comment-75707</guid>
		<description>Michael Hampton is right, and Craig is incorrect; there indeed has never been an example of a society with a State that has worked, and I've seen plenty of examples of societies without States that seem to work just fine (just read Rothbard and Ruwart).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Hampton is right, and Craig is incorrect; there indeed has never been an example of a society with a State that has worked, and I&#8217;ve seen plenty of examples of societies without States that seem to work just fine (just read Rothbard and Ruwart).</p>
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