<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Property Taxes&#8221; and the Consent of the Governed</title>
	<atom:link href="http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/</link>
	<description>Peaceful Evolution</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:50:10 -0400</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-82743</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 03:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-82743</guid>
		<description>I think that property taxes are unethical. How does the state have the right to tax you for something that you own. That&#039;s like saying, &quot;hmmm. We as a state need to find a way to get more money flowing through for our frivilous spending habits. Let&#039;s see, that guy over there owns an ipod, we can charge him taxes for owning it.&quot; Sure, an ipod is alot different than a property but the principle are still the same. Oh, to the guy who knows it all and tried to slam the one who wrote this blog, every site has one of you, the ones who seem to enjoy taking from behind when it comes to the government, the ones who think &quot;oh the gov can&#039;t do no wrong. They have legitimate reason for everything&quot;. I do not understand that self destructive way of thinking. You seem to want to be subject to everything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that property taxes are unethical. How does the state have the right to tax you for something that you own. That&#8217;s like saying, &#8220;hmmm. We as a state need to find a way to get more money flowing through for our frivilous spending habits. Let&#8217;s see, that guy over there owns an ipod, we can charge him taxes for owning it.&#8221; Sure, an ipod is alot different than a property but the principle are still the same. Oh, to the guy who knows it all and tried to slam the one who wrote this blog, every site has one of you, the ones who seem to enjoy taking from behind when it comes to the government, the ones who think &#8220;oh the gov can&#8217;t do no wrong. They have legitimate reason for everything&#8221;. I do not understand that self destructive way of thinking. You seem to want to be subject to everything.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DSH Dollar Sign Historian</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-77841</link>
		<dc:creator>DSH Dollar Sign Historian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Mar 2009 06:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-77841</guid>
		<description>Ian,  In the late 1980’s I sent a certified letter asking the Los Angeles County Tax Collector the same question.  2,651. . .  what?  Ounces, pounds, gallons, WHAT?   I never did get a response.  Until new information becomes available I have come to the following position.  First, there are 4 dollar signs that we know of.  The first DOLLAR SIGN  is an S with a U superimposed over it.  This first dollar sign was defined in the coinage act of 1792 as a silver coin of a specified weight and purity and patterned after the Spanish Milled Dollar that was at that time used and accepted by merchants around the globe. [you can goggle the coinage act].  The SECOND DOLLAR SIGN is an S with two vertical lines superimposed over it.  Our best guess is that this sign is legally defined as a paper Silver Certificate that could be used to claim the US silver dollar defined in the Coinage Act.  The THIRD DOLLAR SIGN is and S with one vertical line superimposed over it [$] and is the most commonly seen dollar sign.  Our best guess is that the legal definition of this dollar sign is that it represents a Federal Reserve Note [an IOU obligation of the federal government backed by the future labor of the American people. THE FOURTH DOLLAR SIGN is an S with a short line sticking out of the top of the S and a short line sticking out of the bottom of the S.  I occasionally see this sign used in stock and mutual fund Prospectus’.  NOW HERE IS THE INTERESTING PART. Article 1 Section 10 of the Constitution, [which is still binding on the States] prohibits the States from using anything “but gold or silver coin a tender in payment of debt”.   A county, which is a subdivision of the State is also bound by this restriction.  So the county is in a legal pickle,  if they bill you for PROPERTY TAXES using the FIRST OR SECOND DOLLAR SIGN, no one could pay the bill because there are none of those “dollars” in circulation.  And if the county billed you using the THIRD OR FOURTH DOLLAR SIGN they [the state and county] would be in violation of Article 1 Section 10.  It appears that for the past 80 to 100 years the County has side stepped the problem by sending out property tax bills with numbers only, [no unit such as dollars, cents, pounds, bushels] and waited too see what the mind numbed sheep would send them.  An Interesting foot note, The County of Los Angeles began using the THIRD DOLLAR SIGN in the year 2000, An I notice that the county of Riverside California is using the FOURTH DOLLAR SIGN.  My letters to the U. S. Treasurer and the House Banking Committee have also gone unanswered.  I’d be interested in comments from other states and counties.  My Email address is deercreek@usa.com   signed DSH</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian,  In the late 1980’s I sent a certified letter asking the Los Angeles County Tax Collector the same question.  2,651. . .  what?  Ounces, pounds, gallons, WHAT?   I never did get a response.  Until new information becomes available I have come to the following position.  First, there are 4 dollar signs that we know of.  The first DOLLAR SIGN  is an S with a U superimposed over it.  This first dollar sign was defined in the coinage act of 1792 as a silver coin of a specified weight and purity and patterned after the Spanish Milled Dollar that was at that time used and accepted by merchants around the globe. [you can goggle the coinage act].  The SECOND DOLLAR SIGN is an S with two vertical lines superimposed over it.  Our best guess is that this sign is legally defined as a paper Silver Certificate that could be used to claim the US silver dollar defined in the Coinage Act.  The THIRD DOLLAR SIGN is and S with one vertical line superimposed over it [$] and is the most commonly seen dollar sign.  Our best guess is that the legal definition of this dollar sign is that it represents a Federal Reserve Note [an IOU obligation of the federal government backed by the future labor of the American people. THE FOURTH DOLLAR SIGN is an S with a short line sticking out of the top of the S and a short line sticking out of the bottom of the S.  I occasionally see this sign used in stock and mutual fund Prospectus’.  NOW HERE IS THE INTERESTING PART. Article 1 Section 10 of the Constitution, [which is still binding on the States] prohibits the States from using anything “but gold or silver coin a tender in payment of debt”.   A county, which is a subdivision of the State is also bound by this restriction.  So the county is in a legal pickle,  if they bill you for PROPERTY TAXES using the FIRST OR SECOND DOLLAR SIGN, no one could pay the bill because there are none of those “dollars” in circulation.  And if the county billed you using the THIRD OR FOURTH DOLLAR SIGN they [the state and county] would be in violation of Article 1 Section 10.  It appears that for the past 80 to 100 years the County has side stepped the problem by sending out property tax bills with numbers only, [no unit such as dollars, cents, pounds, bushels] and waited too see what the mind numbed sheep would send them.  An Interesting foot note, The County of Los Angeles began using the THIRD DOLLAR SIGN in the year 2000, An I notice that the county of Riverside California is using the FOURTH DOLLAR SIGN.  My letters to the U. S. Treasurer and the House Banking Committee have also gone unanswered.  I’d be interested in comments from other states and counties.  My Email address is <a href="mailto:deercreek@usa.com">deercreek@usa.com</a>   signed DSH</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: EthanAllen</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-77304</link>
		<dc:creator>EthanAllen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-77304</guid>
		<description>The problem is that Ian and others can&#039;t articulate a reasonable alternative to the social contract theory with poly-centric law theory that makes any sense to anyone.

Where is the alternative?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that Ian and others can&#8217;t articulate a reasonable alternative to the social contract theory with poly-centric law theory that makes any sense to anyone.</p>
<p>Where is the alternative?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: maulotaur</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-76073</link>
		<dc:creator>maulotaur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Sep 2008 09:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-76073</guid>
		<description>I was recently passing through the city and decided to stop into the city hall building to ask some questions about property taxes.  When I stated that one of my questions was specifically concerning the authority of tax collection, I was told that I would have to speak to the tax collector who was conveniently on vacation for the next two weeks.  I then asked if the two weeks was including that day or after that day.  The answer was then revised to say that she would be in on one particular day in the morning but then leaving, etc.  After wasting some time with this, I was told that I could also go upstairs for more information.  Apparently a very quick call to upstairs was made, because I got there, they were waiting for me.  I don&#039;t know how many others have been in there asking similar questions, but they almost seemed amused by it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was recently passing through the city and decided to stop into the city hall building to ask some questions about property taxes.  When I stated that one of my questions was specifically concerning the authority of tax collection, I was told that I would have to speak to the tax collector who was conveniently on vacation for the next two weeks.  I then asked if the two weeks was including that day or after that day.  The answer was then revised to say that she would be in on one particular day in the morning but then leaving, etc.  After wasting some time with this, I was told that I could also go upstairs for more information.  Apparently a very quick call to upstairs was made, because I got there, they were waiting for me.  I don&#8217;t know how many others have been in there asking similar questions, but they almost seemed amused by it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Curt Springer</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-75980</link>
		<dc:creator>Curt Springer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 22:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-75980</guid>
		<description>Mrs. Alther is indeed a nice lady to respond to this nonsense.  

She answered your questions, but if you want more specifics:

NH constitution:
Part First
[Art.] 3. [Society, its Organization and Purposes.] When men enter into a state of society, they surrender up some of their natural rights to that society, in order to ensure the protection of others; and, without such an equivalent, the surrender is void.

June 2, 1784

Part Second
Article 1. [Name of Body Politic.] The people inhabiting the territory formerly called the province of New Hampshire, do hereby solemnly and mutually agree with each other, to form themselves into a free, sovereign and independent body-politic, or state, by the name of the State of New Hampshire.

June 2, 1784

GENERAL COURT

[Art.] 2. [Legislature, How Constituted.] The supreme legislative power, within this state, shall be vested in the senate and house of representatives, each of which shall have a negative on the other.

June 2, 1784

[Art.] 5. [Power to Make Laws, Elect Officers, Define Their Powers and Duties, Impose Fines and Assess Taxes; Prohibited from Authorizing Towns to Aid Certain Corporations.] And farther, full power and authority are hereby given and granted to the said general court, from time to time, to make, ordain, and establish, all manner of wholesome and reasonable orders, laws, statutes, ordinances, directions, and instructions, either with penalties, or without, so as the same be not repugnant or contrary to this constitution, as they may judge for the benefit and welfare of this state, and for the governing and ordering thereof, and of the subjects of the same, for the necessary support and defense of the government thereof, and to name and settle biennially, or provide by fixed laws for the naming and settling, all civil officers within this state, such officers excepted, the election and appointment of whom are hereafter in this form of government otherwise provided for; and to set forth the several duties, powers, and limits, of the several civil and military officers of this state, and the forms of such oaths or affirmations as shall be respectively administered unto them, for the execution of their several offices and places, so as the same be not repugnant or contrary to this constitution; and also to impose fines, mulcts, imprisonments, and other punishments, and to impose and levy proportional and reasonable assessments, rates, and taxes, upon all the inhabitants of, and residents within, the said state; and upon all estates within the same; to be issued and disposed of by warrant, under the hand of the governor of this state for the time being, with the advice and consent of the council, for the public service, in the necessary defense and support of the government of this state, and the protection and preservation of the subjects thereof, according to such acts as are, or shall be, in force within the same; provided that the general court shall not authorize any town to loan or give its money or credit directly or indirectly for the benefit of any corporation having for its object a dividend of profits or in any way aid the same by taking its stocks or bonds. For the purpose of encouraging conservation of the forest resources of the state, the general court may provide for special assessments, rates and taxes on growing wood and timber.

June 2, 1784
Amended 1792 changing &quot;president&quot; to &quot;governor.&quot;
Amended 1877 changing &quot;annually&quot; to &quot;biennially.&quot; Also amended to prohibit towns and cities from loaning money or credit to corporations.
Amended 1942 to permit a timber tax.

RSA 72:6 Real Estate. – All real estate, whether improved or unimproved, shall be taxed except as otherwise provided.

RSA 47:1 In General. – All the powers vested by law in towns, or in the inhabitants thereof, shall be exercised by the city councils by concurrent vote, each board having a negative on the other.

RSA 47:14 Appointive Officers. – They shall appoint a city marshal, and one or more assistant marshals if they think it necessary, a collector of taxes, constables, police officers and watchmen, and may remove them from office for sufficient cause; and may require the marshal and constables, before entering on their duties, to give bonds, with sufficient sureties to any reasonable amount, upon which like proceedings and remedies may be had as in case of bonds required to be given by constables of towns. 

Keene City Charter:
SECTION 1. INCORPORATION. The inhabitants of the City of Keene shall continue to be a body politic and corporate under the name of the &quot;City of Keene,&quot; hereinafter sometimes referred to as &quot;the City,&quot; and as such to enjoy all the rights, immunities, powers, and privileges and be subject to all the duties and liabilities now appertaining to or incumbent upon them as a municipal corporation. All existing property of the City shall remain vested in it, and all its existing debts and obligations shall remain obligatory upon it, under this revised Charter. 

SECTION 52. EFFECTIVE DATE. This Charter was effective January 2, 1970 with a complete charter revision. Sections 2, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12, 16, 19, 21, 25, 28, 29 and 49 were amended November 6, 1973, by Charter Commission and Referendum. Sections 3, 5, 7, 8, 9 12, 13, 15, 19, 20, 21, 23, 26, 28, 33, 35, 36 (b&amp;c), 38, 39, 40, 41, and 53 were amended November 7, 1978, by Charter Commission and Referendum. Sections 2, 3, 7, 14, and 18 were amended November 2, 1981, by Referendum. The 1983 Municipal Election will be from revised wards as established by the 1981 Municipal Election. The revised wards will be in effect January 1, 1984. Section 2 was amended November 5, 1991, by referendum. The revised wards will be in effect January 1, 1992. Section 2 was amended November 6, 2001, by referendum. The revised wards shall take affect June 1, 2002. When this Charter amendment takes affect the incumbents of all elected offices shall continue to hold the same until the expiration of their respective terms. Sections 16, 25 and 45 were amended November 2, 2004, by referendum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mrs. Alther is indeed a nice lady to respond to this nonsense.  </p>
<p>She answered your questions, but if you want more specifics:</p>
<p>NH constitution:<br />
Part First<br />
[Art.] 3. [Society, its Organization and Purposes.] When men enter into a state of society, they surrender up some of their natural rights to that society, in order to ensure the protection of others; and, without such an equivalent, the surrender is void.</p>
<p>June 2, 1784</p>
<p>Part Second<br />
Article 1. [Name of Body Politic.] The people inhabiting the territory formerly called the province of New Hampshire, do hereby solemnly and mutually agree with each other, to form themselves into a free, sovereign and independent body-politic, or state, by the name of the State of New Hampshire.</p>
<p>June 2, 1784</p>
<p>GENERAL COURT</p>
<p>[Art.] 2. [Legislature, How Constituted.] The supreme legislative power, within this state, shall be vested in the senate and house of representatives, each of which shall have a negative on the other.</p>
<p>June 2, 1784</p>
<p>[Art.] 5. [Power to Make Laws, Elect Officers, Define Their Powers and Duties, Impose Fines and Assess Taxes; Prohibited from Authorizing Towns to Aid Certain Corporations.] And farther, full power and authority are hereby given and granted to the said general court, from time to time, to make, ordain, and establish, all manner of wholesome and reasonable orders, laws, statutes, ordinances, directions, and instructions, either with penalties, or without, so as the same be not repugnant or contrary to this constitution, as they may judge for the benefit and welfare of this state, and for the governing and ordering thereof, and of the subjects of the same, for the necessary support and defense of the government thereof, and to name and settle biennially, or provide by fixed laws for the naming and settling, all civil officers within this state, such officers excepted, the election and appointment of whom are hereafter in this form of government otherwise provided for; and to set forth the several duties, powers, and limits, of the several civil and military officers of this state, and the forms of such oaths or affirmations as shall be respectively administered unto them, for the execution of their several offices and places, so as the same be not repugnant or contrary to this constitution; and also to impose fines, mulcts, imprisonments, and other punishments, and to impose and levy proportional and reasonable assessments, rates, and taxes, upon all the inhabitants of, and residents within, the said state; and upon all estates within the same; to be issued and disposed of by warrant, under the hand of the governor of this state for the time being, with the advice and consent of the council, for the public service, in the necessary defense and support of the government of this state, and the protection and preservation of the subjects thereof, according to such acts as are, or shall be, in force within the same; provided that the general court shall not authorize any town to loan or give its money or credit directly or indirectly for the benefit of any corporation having for its object a dividend of profits or in any way aid the same by taking its stocks or bonds. For the purpose of encouraging conservation of the forest resources of the state, the general court may provide for special assessments, rates and taxes on growing wood and timber.</p>
<p>June 2, 1784<br />
Amended 1792 changing &#8220;president&#8221; to &#8220;governor.&#8221;<br />
Amended 1877 changing &#8220;annually&#8221; to &#8220;biennially.&#8221; Also amended to prohibit towns and cities from loaning money or credit to corporations.<br />
Amended 1942 to permit a timber tax.</p>
<p>RSA 72:6 Real Estate. – All real estate, whether improved or unimproved, shall be taxed except as otherwise provided.</p>
<p>RSA 47:1 In General. – All the powers vested by law in towns, or in the inhabitants thereof, shall be exercised by the city councils by concurrent vote, each board having a negative on the other.</p>
<p>RSA 47:14 Appointive Officers. – They shall appoint a city marshal, and one or more assistant marshals if they think it necessary, a collector of taxes, constables, police officers and watchmen, and may remove them from office for sufficient cause; and may require the marshal and constables, before entering on their duties, to give bonds, with sufficient sureties to any reasonable amount, upon which like proceedings and remedies may be had as in case of bonds required to be given by constables of towns. </p>
<p>Keene City Charter:<br />
SECTION 1. INCORPORATION. The inhabitants of the City of Keene shall continue to be a body politic and corporate under the name of the &#8220;City of Keene,&#8221; hereinafter sometimes referred to as &#8220;the City,&#8221; and as such to enjoy all the rights, immunities, powers, and privileges and be subject to all the duties and liabilities now appertaining to or incumbent upon them as a municipal corporation. All existing property of the City shall remain vested in it, and all its existing debts and obligations shall remain obligatory upon it, under this revised Charter. </p>
<p>SECTION 52. EFFECTIVE DATE. This Charter was effective January 2, 1970 with a complete charter revision. Sections 2, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12, 16, 19, 21, 25, 28, 29 and 49 were amended November 6, 1973, by Charter Commission and Referendum. Sections 3, 5, 7, 8, 9 12, 13, 15, 19, 20, 21, 23, 26, 28, 33, 35, 36 (b&amp;c), 38, 39, 40, 41, and 53 were amended November 7, 1978, by Charter Commission and Referendum. Sections 2, 3, 7, 14, and 18 were amended November 2, 1981, by Referendum. The 1983 Municipal Election will be from revised wards as established by the 1981 Municipal Election. The revised wards will be in effect January 1, 1984. Section 2 was amended November 5, 1991, by referendum. The revised wards will be in effect January 1, 1992. Section 2 was amended November 6, 2001, by referendum. The revised wards shall take affect June 1, 2002. When this Charter amendment takes affect the incumbents of all elected offices shall continue to hold the same until the expiration of their respective terms. Sections 16, 25 and 45 were amended November 2, 2004, by referendum.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sovereign1</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-75860</link>
		<dc:creator>Sovereign1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-75860</guid>
		<description>Patrick Shields,

Thank your for rebutting my essay.  Perhaps you are currently writing the essay that provides the detailed explanations that you didn&#039;t provide in your rebuttal?  Well anyway, here is what I would appreciate if you could include in it:

Please explain what holes are in my argument.

1. Please explain what the degrees of freedom are.  

2a. Is declaring the truth considered imposing?  I propose that it would only be imposing on those who are enemies of the truth.  Please explain what isn&#039;t true about what I said.
2b. Please explain how the social contract is part of our system of law.  It would be great if you could provide references to it from the founding fathers&#039; writings.

You are basically saying that everyone must obey all laws because of some imaginary social contract.  Very well, please provide the original &quot;social&quot; contract that I signed.  Or two uninterested witnesses that will provide testimony that I agreed to it verbally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick Shields,</p>
<p>Thank your for rebutting my essay.  Perhaps you are currently writing the essay that provides the detailed explanations that you didn&#8217;t provide in your rebuttal?  Well anyway, here is what I would appreciate if you could include in it:</p>
<p>Please explain what holes are in my argument.</p>
<p>1. Please explain what the degrees of freedom are.  </p>
<p>2a. Is declaring the truth considered imposing?  I propose that it would only be imposing on those who are enemies of the truth.  Please explain what isn&#8217;t true about what I said.<br />
2b. Please explain how the social contract is part of our system of law.  It would be great if you could provide references to it from the founding fathers&#8217; writings.</p>
<p>You are basically saying that everyone must obey all laws because of some imaginary social contract.  Very well, please provide the original &#8220;social&#8221; contract that I signed.  Or two uninterested witnesses that will provide testimony that I agreed to it verbally.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-75859</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 02:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-75859</guid>
		<description>&quot;I just now received an email for David Z’s comment. It is weird that it took so many days to be informed through email.&quot; - Patrick

David&#039;s comment was stuck in a spam filter for several days for whatever reason. I just recently saw it there and released it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I just now received an email for David Z’s comment. It is weird that it took so many days to be informed through email.&#8221; &#8211; Patrick</p>
<p>David&#8217;s comment was stuck in a spam filter for several days for whatever reason. I just recently saw it there and released it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick Shields</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-75858</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-75858</guid>
		<description>Sovereign1, your argument is full of holes.

1) Degrees of freedom can exist. Freedom is not either present or non-existent.

2) You are imposing your view of &quot;freedom&quot; on our current political system. The social contract IS a part of our political system. If you don&#039;t like that, you&#039;re entitled to ignore it--but you&#039;ll face the consequences when you don&#039;t pay your taxes or get caught smoking or breaking any of the other laws that conflict with your view of freedom.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sovereign1, your argument is full of holes.</p>
<p>1) Degrees of freedom can exist. Freedom is not either present or non-existent.</p>
<p>2) You are imposing your view of &#8220;freedom&#8221; on our current political system. The social contract IS a part of our political system. If you don&#8217;t like that, you&#8217;re entitled to ignore it&#8211;but you&#8217;ll face the consequences when you don&#8217;t pay your taxes or get caught smoking or breaking any of the other laws that conflict with your view of freedom.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sovereign1</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-75857</link>
		<dc:creator>Sovereign1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-75857</guid>
		<description>Keep up the good work Ian.  I wish you luck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep up the good work Ian.  I wish you luck.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sovereign1</title>
		<link>http://freekeene.com/2008/07/08/property-taxes-and-the-consent-of-the-governed/comment-page-1/#comment-75856</link>
		<dc:creator>Sovereign1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 00:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freekeene.com/?p=379#comment-75856</guid>
		<description>Regarding the social contract theory of law: 

Point 1: If we have to leave the lands that we own, or lands that no one owns, because of rules that other people have made, then we are not free.  If this is truly the land of the free, with all of the people being independent sovereigns with unalienable rights, then the social contract theory of law cannot exist here. Freedom and the social contract cannot coexist.

Point 2: If we have to obey rules that other people have made without our consent, then those rules are being forced upon us.  That is called &quot;tyranny&quot;.

Regarding democracy:

We live in a democracy?  Well, perhaps if you live in the District of Columbia.  Most of us live in constitutional republics.  (A &quot;constitutional republic&quot; is where we have representatives that we require to swear an oath of office to obey a set of limitations called a constitution.)  For evidence, please refer to the Pledge of Allegiance.  For those who are interested, I shall explain where this &quot;we are a Democracy&quot; stuff is coming from: 

1. Each state is an independent constitutional republic with its own constitution and representatives.
2. A central federal Democracy was created to assist the separate states with the organization of defense and inter-state dispute moderation.
3. It is this central federal Democracy that they are referring to, while totalling ignoring the fact that 99% of the people don&#039;t live in one.  Actually, I think they&#039;d rather that you forgot that you did.

Do we want to &quot;fight for Democracy&quot;?  Democracy is a system where the minority&#039;s rights are not protected, and where the majority always wins.  For this very reason, democracy is called &quot;mob rule&quot;.  A quote about democracy:

&quot;A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.&quot;

What Ian is doing is not logically fallacious (with the exception of giving them the check at the same time as the conditional acceptance, but I suspect that he realizes this now).  He is exercising his sovereign power to question anyone&#039;s assumption that they have authority or jurisdiction over him.  If evidence can be brought forward to prove their claim, then let it be.  But if they can&#039;t, then none exists.  If none exists, then we certainly shouldn&#039;t be doing anything they ask us to do!  

The same methods of Notices and Demands that the government uses can be used against them.  When they remain silent, they default and their silence is their consent.  The use of notorial protest can be used to obtain default judgments against anyone, including our government servants.

Yes, they&#039;ve been misleading us in their government schools, on TV, in the newspapers, and on the radio for so long that we have begun to believe their lies that &quot;the government is all powerful, and no one is allowed to question them--we must do as they ask blindly&quot;.  The truth that our forefathers knew is fading into obscurity as fast as they can possibly help it along.  For as soon as we do not know our unalienable rights, as soon as we do not know that we are free, sovereign individuals, then we can be easily enslaved.  I will tell you how they are doing it.

What is the truth that they hope we will never learn?  Here&#039;s another maxim of law that will help you understand this: &quot;the created cannot control the creator&quot;.  Witness the undisputable chain of power:

Creator--&gt;Man--&gt;Government

(Note in the below that I use &quot;man&quot; and &quot;he&quot; in the place of &quot;wo/man&quot; and &quot;s/he&quot;.  I do not intend to mean that women do not have equal sovereignty.)

1. The creator created mankind and endowed them with unalienable rights.
2. All men are equal before the law (another maxim of law).  Each man is a sovereign and is completely free. No man has jurisdiction over any other man.  (Jurisdiction means &quot;spoken oath&quot;, therefore where there is no oath spoken, there is no jurisdiction.  Also note that a signature is evidence of an oath, therefore contracts create jurisdiction.)  Each man can do anything that he wishes, as long as he doesn&#039;t harm another man or another man&#039;s property.
3. Mankind can create laws to govern their creations, but these laws do not apply to the other free sovereign men.  In order to create laws that apply to other free men, a contract must be created.  Both men agree to something in the contract, and that contract becomes the law for those men.  That contract does not apply to any other free men until they agree to it also.
4. Some men create governments.  They sign their names on contracts to agree on the government’s limitations and duties.  They give the government permission to act on their behalf to do various things.  The people who run for government provide their consent to the government by swearing an oath of office. The government officials are elected into office by the voters, who provide their consent by registering to vote and participating in the act of voting.  The remainder of the free people that do not participate in signing any government contracts, or voting, or running for office, or having anything to do with this creation of other men, are not governed by that creation.  No social contract nonsense.
5. Some men are not aware of their freedom, and fall prey to the trickery of men with bad intentions.  The men with bad intentions have worked for a long time to carefully create an illusion that all men are bound by their rules without needing their consent, and that everyone must sign their contracts whenever they want them to.  These men would prefer that the people learn nothing about contract law at all!  They trick the ignorant men into signing contracts such as &quot;social security&quot;, &quot;voter registration&quot;, &quot;military draft registration&quot;, and a whole assortment of government IDs, permits, licenses, and registrations.  These contracts contain wording that gives the government jurisdiction over the free men, turning the free sovereign man into a government subject. Unfortunately, the parent tend to be the unwitting co-conspirators, telling us when we were young that we had no choice but to sign these horrible things.
6. Some men (like Ian and many others), after waking up and realizing what they have done, decide that want to be free again.  They begin rescinding their signatures on their government contracts.  They sent letters to their elected officials with proof of service to notify them that they have revoked their consent to be governed.  The government dislikes this, and will tend to ignore them, hoping they do not understand how to use this silence against them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the social contract theory of law: </p>
<p>Point 1: If we have to leave the lands that we own, or lands that no one owns, because of rules that other people have made, then we are not free.  If this is truly the land of the free, with all of the people being independent sovereigns with unalienable rights, then the social contract theory of law cannot exist here. Freedom and the social contract cannot coexist.</p>
<p>Point 2: If we have to obey rules that other people have made without our consent, then those rules are being forced upon us.  That is called &#8220;tyranny&#8221;.</p>
<p>Regarding democracy:</p>
<p>We live in a democracy?  Well, perhaps if you live in the District of Columbia.  Most of us live in constitutional republics.  (A &#8220;constitutional republic&#8221; is where we have representatives that we require to swear an oath of office to obey a set of limitations called a constitution.)  For evidence, please refer to the Pledge of Allegiance.  For those who are interested, I shall explain where this &#8220;we are a Democracy&#8221; stuff is coming from: </p>
<p>1. Each state is an independent constitutional republic with its own constitution and representatives.<br />
2. A central federal Democracy was created to assist the separate states with the organization of defense and inter-state dispute moderation.<br />
3. It is this central federal Democracy that they are referring to, while totalling ignoring the fact that 99% of the people don&#8217;t live in one.  Actually, I think they&#8217;d rather that you forgot that you did.</p>
<p>Do we want to &#8220;fight for Democracy&#8221;?  Democracy is a system where the minority&#8217;s rights are not protected, and where the majority always wins.  For this very reason, democracy is called &#8220;mob rule&#8221;.  A quote about democracy:</p>
<p>&#8220;A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.&#8221;</p>
<p>What Ian is doing is not logically fallacious (with the exception of giving them the check at the same time as the conditional acceptance, but I suspect that he realizes this now).  He is exercising his sovereign power to question anyone&#8217;s assumption that they have authority or jurisdiction over him.  If evidence can be brought forward to prove their claim, then let it be.  But if they can&#8217;t, then none exists.  If none exists, then we certainly shouldn&#8217;t be doing anything they ask us to do!  </p>
<p>The same methods of Notices and Demands that the government uses can be used against them.  When they remain silent, they default and their silence is their consent.  The use of notorial protest can be used to obtain default judgments against anyone, including our government servants.</p>
<p>Yes, they&#8217;ve been misleading us in their government schools, on TV, in the newspapers, and on the radio for so long that we have begun to believe their lies that &#8220;the government is all powerful, and no one is allowed to question them&#8211;we must do as they ask blindly&#8221;.  The truth that our forefathers knew is fading into obscurity as fast as they can possibly help it along.  For as soon as we do not know our unalienable rights, as soon as we do not know that we are free, sovereign individuals, then we can be easily enslaved.  I will tell you how they are doing it.</p>
<p>What is the truth that they hope we will never learn?  Here&#8217;s another maxim of law that will help you understand this: &#8220;the created cannot control the creator&#8221;.  Witness the undisputable chain of power:</p>
<p>Creator&#8211;&gt;Man&#8211;&gt;Government</p>
<p>(Note in the below that I use &#8220;man&#8221; and &#8220;he&#8221; in the place of &#8220;wo/man&#8221; and &#8220;s/he&#8221;.  I do not intend to mean that women do not have equal sovereignty.)</p>
<p>1. The creator created mankind and endowed them with unalienable rights.<br />
2. All men are equal before the law (another maxim of law).  Each man is a sovereign and is completely free. No man has jurisdiction over any other man.  (Jurisdiction means &#8220;spoken oath&#8221;, therefore where there is no oath spoken, there is no jurisdiction.  Also note that a signature is evidence of an oath, therefore contracts create jurisdiction.)  Each man can do anything that he wishes, as long as he doesn&#8217;t harm another man or another man&#8217;s property.<br />
3. Mankind can create laws to govern their creations, but these laws do not apply to the other free sovereign men.  In order to create laws that apply to other free men, a contract must be created.  Both men agree to something in the contract, and that contract becomes the law for those men.  That contract does not apply to any other free men until they agree to it also.<br />
4. Some men create governments.  They sign their names on contracts to agree on the government’s limitations and duties.  They give the government permission to act on their behalf to do various things.  The people who run for government provide their consent to the government by swearing an oath of office. The government officials are elected into office by the voters, who provide their consent by registering to vote and participating in the act of voting.  The remainder of the free people that do not participate in signing any government contracts, or voting, or running for office, or having anything to do with this creation of other men, are not governed by that creation.  No social contract nonsense.<br />
5. Some men are not aware of their freedom, and fall prey to the trickery of men with bad intentions.  The men with bad intentions have worked for a long time to carefully create an illusion that all men are bound by their rules without needing their consent, and that everyone must sign their contracts whenever they want them to.  These men would prefer that the people learn nothing about contract law at all!  They trick the ignorant men into signing contracts such as &#8220;social security&#8221;, &#8220;voter registration&#8221;, &#8220;military draft registration&#8221;, and a whole assortment of government IDs, permits, licenses, and registrations.  These contracts contain wording that gives the government jurisdiction over the free men, turning the free sovereign man into a government subject. Unfortunately, the parent tend to be the unwitting co-conspirators, telling us when we were young that we had no choice but to sign these horrible things.<br />
6. Some men (like Ian and many others), after waking up and realizing what they have done, decide that want to be free again.  They begin rescinding their signatures on their government contracts.  They sent letters to their elected officials with proof of service to notify them that they have revoked their consent to be governed.  The government dislikes this, and will tend to ignore them, hoping they do not understand how to use this silence against them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
