i never imagined there would come a time when it was an almost organized process….free staters pouring onto the air at kbk

it’s an awesome thing…

I definitely can, could and will come up with something better. To illustrate how simple justice really can be, I’ll give you a perhaps simplistic view of it as they teach it in Kindergarten – do unto others as you would have them do unto you. So simple is just human interaction that a child can understand it. I do think it’s interesting, as pure history, the facts you gave about land grants and so forth. The only point we are making in the Free State Project, the liberty movement in general – the voluntaryist, anarcho-capitalist, free marketeer ilk – is that there is the world as it IS and as it OUGHT to be. We believe in the dynamic human spirit of unrestrained creativity and vigor that took our species from the caves to the skyscrapers. No “government” did that. It was individuals working (often collectively) toward a common goal. Are the Pyramids of Giza as awe inspiring when you realize they were built by the forced labor of enslaved men as tribute to the “undying spirit” of their rulers? We do not recognize the “state” as anything but a fictitious entity like any goblin, ogre, or closet beastie. We refuse to sit idly by while this (not our country but our HOME) is reduced to the graveyard that became the USSR. It’s about evolving beyond the superstitions and conventions of the past and into a future OF OUR CHOOSING. Reality and justice are not pieces of paper, they exist in the hearts and minds of free men who think and act on their own volition. We live on our terms, and our terms are a man’s right to exist for his own sake, by his own means, toward whatever ends and goals he deems worthy of his time, his effort, and his labor – that is his LIFE. This goes well beyond pieces of paper granting permission to sit on a plot of land for a determined amount of time at a fixed rate of extortion. What guides this movement is not simply the buzzwords of “freedom” and “liberty”. What guides this movement is a realization of man’s nature, of reality and his place in it. All men are only equal in potential toward excellence, and I guarantee you civilization will only exist more peacefully, more productive and more EQUALLY in a voluntary society.

Here’s a deed I might write if I were going to sell you one of my woodlots:

I, Curt Springer, of Danville grant to Bile of freekeene.com, his heirs, executors, administrators and assigns, a certain tract of unimproved land in Danville, bounded and described as follows:
(description)
(chain of title to me)
Being a segment of the 19th lot in number of the 200 Acre Grants, so called, granted to ?? by the Town of Kingston on month day, 1719.

Subject to all governmental rights that were reserved by the Town of Kingston and Province of New Hampshire, including but not limited to taxation and regulation.

Subject to the right of certain abutters to travel on an old woods road through the premises herein conveyed in order to use their properties.

Subject to a conservation easement given to the Rockingham Land Trust.

The grantor covenants, for himself, heirs, executors and administrators, that, at the time of the delivery of such deed, the grantor was lawfully seized in fee simple of the granted premises, that the said premises were free from all incumbrances, except as stated, that the grantor had good right to sell and convey the same to the grantee, heirs, successors and assigns, and that the grantor will, and the heirs, executors, and administrators shall, warrant and defend the same to the grantee and heirs, successors and assigns, against the lawful claims and demands of all persons.

—————————

FWIW, I think we spent way too much time in school learning about statute law (how a bill becomes law), and not enough about the common law. It is the common law that actually affects us more in our daily lives. If we all understood the common law better, we wouldn’t be as dependent on lawyers.

Also FWIW, I have always said that regulations depend on voluntary compliance (by most people).

Nonviolence is better, understanding is better. That can all be placed on top of the current system.

I know there were some deeds and some treaties but my impression is that overall the transactions were not between a willing buyer and a willing seller, the phrase that is used for real estate assessments. While one might not be complicit in a moral sense in occupying property today, a buyer of real estate today is deriving advantage of the actions of 300 years ago. The creation of private property for white people was a government project and subject to government conditions. Perhaps I feel more complicit than others because I know who many of my ancestors were who arrived in the 17th century and even where some of them lived. AFAIK there were only 2 who did not arrive of their own free will.

Regarding rights that accrue by usage, this is known as “prescription” and applies to both public and private rights. You might know that there is a legal procedure to lay out new roads. But in the oldest part of Portsmouth, none of the roads were laid out and there is no written record of how they came to be. The general public just created and used pathways as a matter of common convenience, and these became public rights of way.

In a similar fashion, when land was granted in large lots and then subdivided, people created paths and trails through each other’s property to get to their land. It was a mutually beneficial thing. Sometimes rights of way were mentioned in deeds, more often not.

Before town roads were built to the property lines of my wood lots, I traveled over other people’s land to get to my land as a matter of right. Now there are still people who travel over my land to get to their camps on a lake. I have no right to stop them.

Most of the land under the roads in our state is actually privately owned. The public has an easement to travel over the road, but the adjoining land owners have “fee simple” ownership of the land under the road up to the center line, even if their deeds or plot plans describe the boundary as being along the edge of the road.

To “the central scrutinizer”:
I mostly get beat up on NH web sites for stating that NH law mostly does not allow people in a single town to gang up on their fellow citizens in the same town, that majority rule mostly only applies at the state level so that even the minority can find support among like-minded people in other towns.

Yes I’m not pleased about some of the majority rules. I’d like to grow pot if I feel like it. I’d like to travel to Cuba. But by and large we have a good system and I don’t think you are going to accomplish anything better.

So you can abjure what you call government violence, but simply by claiming a land title today you are complicit in that.

In many cases back then lands were bought from the natives. I’ve not seen any evidence that what is now Keene was but not all land was taken violently though often the land bought was expanded violently or terms abused. In any case, I believe it’s an incorrect logical jump to say claiming a land title today means you are complicit in what occurred back then. Rothbardian’s (which i’m not claiming those here are) believe that the original owner still has rights to the land but the practicality of it all negates being very proactive about it. The person who ignorantly receives stolen property isn’t guilty of theft nor performing an illegitimate act by purchasing the property, knowing or not knowing it was stolen. Either way however he does not hold legitimate claim to the land. If the original owner or heirs who are verifiable were to request reparations for damages done they should be. Though ideally it should be those most closely related to the crime originally committed. Given the situation that’s likely improbable if not impossible.

I understand the early constitutions adopted the previous governments laws ‘adopted, used, and approved.’ However, that doesn’t make the land legitimately owned. I doubt anyone here would claim that the transfer of illegitimately chartered land from the Crown to the newly independent colonies magically gave them legitimacy.

Not all rights are documented in deeds. Rights can accrue by usage over time.

That seemingly goes against the ideas of general contract. If someone was to enter a condominium (which I understand is a fairly recent US property idea) without being told the rules, what their dues are, etc., the general public would be outraged should that person be kicked out without compensation for not living up to those assumed responcibilities. If the existing common law real property system works in that way why is it that the condo contract/deed clearly defines the requirements and the deed to one’s plot of land does not? Simply because people ‘understand’ that they are subject to taxation and regulation does not legitimize it. Should I understand that if I leave my HDTV on my front porch someone will steal it doesn’t mean I condone the action of its theft. I may be stupid but I’m still a victim of aggression. Without explicit knowledge of a rules, written or spoken, society generally will rule against those who have been deceptive. A cell phone contract may have lots of small print and they may be sneaky but it’s all their in black and white. The belief that any random person performing a purchase of land understands common law real property ownership and knows the real differences from personal property would be very naive. There are many theories about property. Communists usually differentiate between personal property and private property. Capitalists generally don’t. I think it’s safe to say many libertarians / anarcho capitalists / voluntarists / etc. believe real property, personal property and private property are one in the same. (Though some don’t left libertarians, geolibertarians, libertarian socialists and communists, etc.) I think your average home owner would have a difficult time defining the difference in supposed rights between personal property and real property. That alone shows me that there is a deficiency in the land transfer systems, education systems, contract enforcement systems currently employed.