FreeKeene’s Patrick and Sam Speak to City Council

March 20, 2009 by Nick Ryder
Filed under: Ryder Report, Video

On Thursday, March 19, 2009, Patrick Shields and Sam Dodson spoke to the city council regarding property taxes. While counselors may not have agreed with the words coming out of their mouths, there was no doubt that some were impressed with the forethought and planning that each put into his speech. At least 2 city counselors approached Patrick after the meeting and encouraged him to become even more involved in the city political system.

I think it is time that FreeKeene.com hold these people responsible for the votes they make, and make sure they feel the pressure from those of us that care about personal freedom in Keene. Hopefully this is only the beginning of our adventures getting to know the good and the bad going on in the council chambers.

Patrick

I just want to say congratulations on doing such a good job representing the interests of so many of your neighbors. Even if they may not even realize how you are helping them.

Your actions in this video have inspired me to schedule an appointment to go to my own city council meetings. I live in a very large city where positive change is even less likely than it is in your community; but your video has reminded me of the importance of somebody speaking up even when the cause is hopeless.

The government says you can not declare the right to enforce a copyright that you have not put any effort into defending. I'm not someone who ever agrees with the government, but maybe the same thing is true about the people's right to be left alone by the government. Even if you think you will lose, keep in mind, the lack of fighting for your rights will be seen by those in government as an acquiescence of those rites.
Jason

The activism in Keene is helping me choose Keene as my future home. Patrick and Sam, keep it up; reinforcements are on the way.
http://freetalklive.com/ Ian

Great job, Nick and thanks for everything you do.

I hope you guys can keep this up.
jitgos

The activism in Keene is helping me choose Keene as my future home.

Ditto! This makes the decision to move to Keene a no brainer!! I'm thrilled to see that others will be quasi involved in the local govt. I despise politics too much to do the Concord thing, but feel the type of activism shown here has the potential to be some of the most powerful.
Dan Steward

I read The Sentinel's take on the meeting and their reporter, Anika Clark, appeared very open minded towards the FSP. Thank you very much to all for your involvement on behalf of freedom everywhere.

I think that Patrick, Nick, & Sam did a fantastic job on the meeting. That two councilers approached Patrick asking his continued involvement after the meeting is more proof that the ideas of Liberty are alive and well, even in the least likely place, a statist dominated political forum.

The really amazing thing to me is that this is the first attempt at encountering city council in their own house and look at just how much was gained from it.

With more Free-Staters showing up for the meetings and more practice in the future at taking on their big spend & control ideas, gov't in Keene could be brought down to more manageable levels. Bad law can be defeated rather than duplicated and rubber stamped.

Thanks again gentlemen for your intelligent and heroic action. Liberty wins yet again.

Dan
http://scudco.tumblr.com Adam

Great job, guys. I liked Sam's added remark about how property taxes are built into rent. It is so cutting an answer to statists who wish to dismiss non-property owners from the conversation.

Also, great job on the video itself. Editing and presentation quality are key when passing these videos around to the uninitiated.
Zeus

This is the best piece of activism I've seen thus far, particularly with Sam (as I'm not as familiar with Patrick). As difficult as it is to get up in front of the scoffing, elitist bureaucrats and telling it like it is, you did so with gusto. You were firm and made some fantastic points.

That said, I'm still not sure about the effectiveness of "you people". While you and I understand that much of what these people do is self-serving and aggressive, no one sits around twirling their mustaches and thinking "I'm a villain. Bow to my will! Muahahahah!". No, instead I find that they are most often misguided (like we were once upon a time), indoctrinated by years of the government education system to believe that this is how things should work and that what they do helps people. While I believe your words have offered a solid counterpoint, I fear that the aggressive phrase "you people" will shift the cognitive dissonance they would otherwise be experiencing toward a negative value. In other words, they will simply chalk you up as an insulting nut because you have made it easier for them to do so in "good conscience".

Still, if that is what must be done, so be it. As much as I would prefer to win converts to our cause through logical arguments, perhaps that's less effective than shaming or insulting them.

And perhaps it's too late in the game, what with the economy already accelerating the demise of government power, to approach them with kid gloves.
Zeus

Here's the Keene Sentinel article since no one included a link. Looks like you guys won this particular battle and at least one guy seems to "get it".
charley hardman

truth to evil. you both did well.
jitgos

Thanks for the link Zeus. I just posted a comment on it, but it has to be approved first. Here's what I said.

“Did the free market abolish child labor in this country?” he asked. “I think not. Did the free market give women the right to vote?" – Duffy

Actually the free market essentially DID abolish child labor in the country. The law against it was basically the government jumping in front of a parade that was already in progress. Read http://mises.org/story/2858 for more details.

As far as giving women the right to vote… who prevented them from voting in the first place?? Think about it.

"If we’re going to preach that the market can take care of these issues, we might as well all go home.” – Duffy

Sounds like a great idea Mr. Duffy.
Fraker

Yeah, that Duffy guys sounds like an idiot. If the market really was saturated, then the law is redundant because shortly after a new bar opened up another bar (or the same one) would close down. The law really is about create a 'cartel' of downtown bars and using the government to stop competition.
Dan Steward

It would appear to be somewhat easy to expose just who is behind the "cartel" and their desire to eliminate the competition.

From there it would be no problem at all to expose those who are attempting to have the bar biz all to themselves. The real trick would be getting the people to actually care as they have been led around by the nose lo these many years. They feel as though if it doesn't directly affect them in a way they can see and feel, etc…
http://pshields.net Patrick Shields

Great job on the video, Nick!
http://speakoutdanville.org/bbs Curt Springer

It was noted in one of the forum threads that a local business person was looking for help from the FSP community in Keene. Did any of you help get opposition organized?
http://webryders.net nick

Curt,

He was supposed to show up at social Sunday to get his petition signed. I don't think I ever saw him, however, he still submitted his petition and it was against the ordinance that was voted down at this very meeting.

So he did get what he needed.
Brent

Great job. You guys have the courage to stand up and say what many others are thinking but whom may not be so inclined to publicly express it in this manner. As hard as it may be to go in front of these people and tell them the cold hard truth it has a very powerful effect in my opinion. I commend both of you.
CAV

Patrick and Sam should consider wearing at least some slacks and a shirt with a collar next time. It would make them a little less dismissable.
http://freekeene.com Russell Shields

If your intent is to do away with the property tax, what alternatives are you proposing to raise revenue for Keene's schools, police, fire stations, hospitals, garbage disposal, sewers, road and sidewalk maintenance, parks, libraries, and other public services?
http://freetalklive.com/ Ian

Here's a shocker:

Garbage pickup is already done by the marketplace in Keene!
Zeus

Russell,

How about allowing people who want those services provided by the local government to opt-in and those who don’t to opt-out?

You don’t pay for the public schools, your kids can’t go to them. You don’t pay for garbage pickup, better find another provider. You don’t want to pay the cops or the fire department, call your own provider in case of emergency.

Also, the local government could provide more products and services for a fee. As long as they allow competition and don’t force others to pay for the things they don’t use or want, I don’t see reason for complaint on our end of things.

The point is, don’t use force or the threat thereof to extract money from people who aren’t interested in your products or services.

Now, of course, the usual statist response to this idea is “There won’t be enough people to pay for all the stuff we want provided by the government! We HAVE to steal/leech from those who don’t use those services in order to get enough money to pay for them!”.

And therein lies the problem.

If those services were all that valuable, people would pay for them. Also, competition would give them incentive to provide better service and products at affordable prices.