Comments on: Sam Update: Guard Confiscating Food / Sweltering Heat http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/ Peaceful Evolution Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:02:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Zeus http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78758 Zeus Sun, 03 May 2009 10:44:05 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78758 <blockquote>As Bile said it’s not a valid legal technique, it’s more of a political statement. I think most people who advocate/use it realize that it is legal gibberish. That is sort of the point.</blockquote> Well, it's not considered a valid legal technique because the legal system that ignores it isn't interested in morality, only the rules and whether you broke them.

As Bile said it’s not a valid legal technique, it’s more of a political statement. I think most people who advocate/use it realize that it is legal gibberish. That is sort of the point.

Well, it’s not considered a valid legal technique because the legal system that ignores it isn’t interested in morality, only the rules and whether you broke them.

]]> By: candy http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78755 candy Sun, 03 May 2009 09:58:02 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78755 Subjugate the people,change the laws,enforce them,change them again to suit your own purposes,after all,you were voted into POWER.So much for your democracy. Subjugate the people,change the laws,enforce them,change them again to suit your own purposes,after all,you were voted into POWER.So much for your democracy.

]]> By: Lpviper http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78670 Lpviper Fri, 01 May 2009 02:56:36 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78670 If any of this crap got in front of 12 informed jurors it wouldn't stand a chance of earning the prosecutor his conviction, because these charges are crap, and the whole thing they are pulling here is crap. I refuse to even begin to validate the positions of any of the tyrants who will not let Sam go, and I believe that negotiating with these animals will only encourage them to do more of it. I also think that if Sam disagreed in any significant way with what I just stated, he wouldn't be in jail right now. Thanks Andy in Michigan If any of this crap got in front of 12 informed jurors it wouldn’t stand a chance of earning the prosecutor his conviction, because these charges are crap, and the whole thing they are pulling here is crap. I refuse to even begin to validate the positions of any of the tyrants who will not let Sam go, and I believe that negotiating with these animals will only encourage them to do more of it. I also think that if Sam disagreed in any significant way with what I just stated, he wouldn’t be in jail right now.

Thanks

Andy in Michigan

]]> By: Jake the Muss http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78667 Jake the Muss Fri, 01 May 2009 00:49:41 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78667 As Bile said it's not a valid legal technique, it's more of a political statement. I think most people who advocate/use it realize that it is legal gibberish. That is sort of the point. I personally wouldn't use it because I would have a different strategic goal to those who use it. As Bile said it’s not a valid legal technique, it’s more of a political statement. I think most people who advocate/use it realize that it is legal gibberish. That is sort of the point.

I personally wouldn’t use it because I would have a different strategic goal to those who use it.

]]> By: bile http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78653 bile Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:50:52 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78653 Political science, philosophy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimless_crime http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensual_crime Derived from the harm principle / non aggression principle. Political science, philosophy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victimless_crime
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensual_crime

Derived from the harm principle / non aggression principle.

]]> By: jzacker http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78652 jzacker Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:41:44 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78652 I think arguing 'no victim, no crime' is pointless. It's not a valid legal position to take. Where did this position even come from? I think arguing ‘no victim, no crime’ is pointless. It’s not a valid legal position to take. Where did this position even come from?

]]> By: Curt Springer http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78649 Curt Springer Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:23:45 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78649 <blockquote>Comment by Lpviper April 29, 2009 @ 7:02 pm I could see your point if the ‘charges’ weren’t all baseless nonsense.</blockquote> I've already mentioned that I'm not convinced that Sam was <i>legally</i> in the right. It wouldn't be fair to Sam to say more than that, as he is in no position to respond. My thought is that there will need to be some give and take from both sides to get Sam out of jail, not people taking hardened ideological positions. I suggested violation-level convictions because these are not "crimes" in a legal sense and can not be used against him in future cases. I've noticed that when people have attorneys, there is often a plea bargain that knocks misdemeanors down to violations. That way the prosecution gets a conviction, but the defendant has no record and no penalty beyond the immediate fine, if any.

Comment by Lpviper

April 29, 2009 @ 7:02 pm

I could see your point if the ‘charges’ weren’t all baseless nonsense.

I’ve already mentioned that I’m not convinced that Sam was legally in the right. It wouldn’t be fair to Sam to say more than that, as he is in no position to respond.

My thought is that there will need to be some give and take from both sides to get Sam out of jail, not people taking hardened ideological positions.

I suggested violation-level convictions because these are not “crimes” in a legal sense and can not be used against him in future cases. I’ve noticed that when people have attorneys, there is often a plea bargain that knocks misdemeanors down to violations. That way the prosecution gets a conviction, but the defendant has no record and no penalty beyond the immediate fine, if any.

]]> By: Ian http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78646 Ian Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:33:01 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78646 Jazz, Uneaten food on trays is thrown out. I'll be happy when peaceful people are released from captivity. It's clear you care not for the well-being of prisoners. I imagine it's because you've told yourself that you're law abiding so you'll never be in there. They keep writing laws. How can you be sure you're following them all? I bet if you got put in, you'd quickly become quite concerned with the conditions. Jazz,

Uneaten food on trays is thrown out. I’ll be happy when peaceful people are released from captivity.

It’s clear you care not for the well-being of prisoners. I imagine it’s because you’ve told yourself that you’re law abiding so you’ll never be in there.

They keep writing laws. How can you be sure you’re following them all?

I bet if you got put in, you’d quickly become quite concerned with the conditions.

]]> By: Lpviper http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78645 Lpviper Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:02:47 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78645 I could see your point if the 'charges' weren't all baseless nonsense. How shall he face his accusers? Who are the victims? I could see your point if the ‘charges’ weren’t all baseless nonsense. How shall he face his accusers? Who are the victims?

]]> By: Curt Springer http://freekeene.com/2009/04/29/sam-update-guard-confiscating-food-sweltering-heat/comment-page-1/#comment-78644 Curt Springer Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:50:04 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=1967#comment-78644 I wish there could be some negotiated conclusion to all of this. On the one hand there are the various charges against Sam. On the other hand he has been in jail for more than two weeks and he seems to have a valid claim of injury relating to his arrest. I would like to see some deal where he gets out of jail with no more than violation-level convictions. In a wider sense, I wish somebody in the community could be an honest broker between the activists and the court system, and arrive at a common understanding about the use of cameras in the courtroom. It looks as though several more of you are aiming to be incarcerated as of Friday. I don't see where this is going or what good will come out of it. I wish there could be some negotiated conclusion to all of this. On the one hand there are the various charges against Sam. On the other hand he has been in jail for more than two weeks and he seems to have a valid claim of injury relating to his arrest. I would like to see some deal where he gets out of jail with no more than violation-level convictions.

In a wider sense, I wish somebody in the community could be an honest broker between the activists and the court system, and arrive at a common understanding about the use of cameras in the courtroom.

It looks as though several more of you are aiming to be incarcerated as of Friday. I don’t see where this is going or what good will come out of it.

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