Free Keene

Comment by Travis

October 17, 2009 @ 6:02 pm

of all the things that piss me off about this, the term “correctional facility” made me rage the most.

Comment by Travis

October 17, 2009 @ 6:10 pm

…as if they’re the ones that need to be corrected. total bullshit.

Comment by Paul

October 17, 2009 @ 6:38 pm

I think it would have been wise for them to take the day off, in respect for the Pumpkin Festival, and I commend those who did take the day off. That said, the actions of the police are far more outrageous.

It’s a considerate thing to choose not to smoke near a festival, either cigarettes or cannabis. That said, locking people in cages who do it is unacceptable behavior.

Comment by xrazorwirex

October 17, 2009 @ 6:57 pm

Que End Lame (who is probably secretly Ed Burke) making a snarky comment about how “they should have chained you degenerates to the back of a speeding bus after sawing your hands off and feeding them to dogs! har har har!”

Any reactions to Dale’s 420-o-lantern?

Comment by Mackler

October 17, 2009 @ 7:01 pm

This is an outrage.

Comment by End Game

October 17, 2009 @ 7:41 pm

thanks razor took the words out of my mouth

Comment by bil

October 17, 2009 @ 9:03 pm

You got what you wanted,stop whining and pretending outrage.If you want in the game,get in all the way.Did you expect being ignored would go on forever?Would it have hurt to take a day off?Don’t push and expect no reaction,when you get the expected reaction,don’t be surprised.Responces will be judged on originality.Any comparison to Rosa Parks is an immediate ‘F’ —bil

Comment by Matthew

October 17, 2009 @ 9:35 pm

I think I would have taken the day off under the circumstances, but I can in no way fault the victims (the protesters) for what happened without contradicting my own views against drug prohibition and public property. They call it the “tragedy of the commons” for a reason. Faulting the victims in this incident for the results of said tragedy is to temporarily suspend one’s cognizance of the underlying problem solely for the purpose of relativistic (i.e. as in morality) persecution.

Comment by Paul

October 17, 2009 @ 9:35 pm

-You got what you wanted,stop whining and pretending outrage.

What they want is to be left alone to smoke what they choose, since its their body. It may be that some were expecting to be arrested in the short term in order to accomplish this longer term goal, but that doesn’t mean the law is any less outrageous. It’s completely arbitrary too, since tobacco is allowed.

-Did you expect being ignored would go on forever?

It would have been nice.

-Would it have hurt to take a day off?

I don’t think so, I think they should have taken a day off. Many did.

-Don’t push and expect no reaction,when you get the expected reaction,don’t be surprised.

As I say, any time civil disobedience is conducted there is an expectation that arrests may occur. That doesn’t mean the law isn’t absurd and immoral, however.

Don’t worry, for me the Rosa Parks example is reserved for those who take the silly “You must always obey any law no matter how immoral, just because it’s the law” tack. It’s not really intended as a comparison, but more of an example showing the illogic of their position. If they say Rosa Parks should have been arrested I then usually ask if they think if Harriett Tubman was wrong to do what she did, or if they would send escaped slaves back to their “masters”, as was the law at one time. If they say yes to that one I usually feel physically sick at the moral bankruptcy and the spineless and slavish thinking that has infested the once brave and free people of this country.

Thankfully that last part has only happened once or twice.

Comment by Lpviper

October 17, 2009 @ 9:39 pm

A law against the possession of a plant is a perversion of the law. Law is supposed to be the collective organization of individual justice. Putting someone in a cage who has not harmed another is unjust. Look at it this way. If the law authorizes an ‘authority’ to do something that an individual cannot, the law is perverted. If I tried to put someone in a cage who hadn’t harmed anyone, I’d be caged myself. It’s only when an ‘authority’ does it under the ‘color of law’ that it’s ok. The basic rights that the government was supposed to be set up to protect are rights to life, liberty, and property. When the government says you cannot possess a certain plant, they have violated your right to property. When they put you in a cage for possessing the plant, they have violated your right to liberty. When you are locked in a cage and not free to do as you choose, they have taken a piece of your life.

Life, liberty, and property, all violated in one fell swoop.

What say you, bil?

Comment by Rich

October 17, 2009 @ 9:51 pm

I did not take today off because today was an opportunity to get people talking about legalization — including the tens of thousands of visitors to Pumpkin Fest. That is the point of the protest. Getting attention. Getting arrested creates media buzz.

I am not surprised to have been arrested. Smoking pot in the town square is similar to poking a bear with a sharp stick. When you poke a bear with a sharp stick, the bear will generally maul you, and this demonstrates the danger of keeping bears around. It is a last resort sort of illustration. If you can convince people that keeping bears is dangerous some other way, especially in a way that does not draw blood, I recommend it.

The political cartel formed by the Democratic and Republican parties has foreclosed the political option in the area of drug legalization. Therefore we are forced to take our demand for redress to the streets. That is what we have done. It is costly — and I speak feelingly as one who will probably bear much of the cost. It is worth it.

Comment by Lpviper

October 17, 2009 @ 9:54 pm

Thank you for fighting for me Rich

Comment by Lpviper

October 17, 2009 @ 10:09 pm

come on bil i want my originality score

Comment by cyberdoo78

October 17, 2009 @ 10:25 pm

Rich,

Thanks for protesting a perversion of the law. I also thank you for moving the protest outside the range of a large collection of individuals whom might not rather take in the smoke from your plant. Further, thank you for not taking a day off.

It saddens me that someone would complain about this being a bad day to protest, or that you should take a day off. In my opinion those who say not to protest, are in effect saying that liberty isn’t worth fighting for. Those who have fought for freedom in the past did not take a day off, so you shouldn’t either, again in my opinion.

What would happen if the abolitionists had taken a day off? What would happen if the womens suffrage movement had taken a day off? What would happen if the American colonists had taken a day off to not fight the British soldiers?

Oh, and I choose not to smoke pot, because its my choice not to.

Comment by Paul

October 17, 2009 @ 11:02 pm

Good analogy, lol.

I think you for your courage to stand up to arbitrary government, and loss of liberty. The only reason I suggested taking a day off was to avoid disrupting the pumpkin fest — not for the sake of the law, but for the sake of getting along with neighbors. I don’t know the details — perhaps you were in fact able to have the event without bothering the regular people enjoying the festival.

In any case, thanks again, in general, for your efforts to restore lost liberties. From the limited accounts, I hear that there was a good deal of support for your activism among bystanders.

Comment by Matthew

October 17, 2009 @ 11:12 pm

I’ve rethought this. Taking the day off when the largest possible audience was going to be present would have been foolish. It would be like a retailer closing shop for Black Friday, or… I’m sure someone could invent a better analogy, given that the crowds show up when there’s a sale, not the other way around.

Comment by Ofer Nave

October 18, 2009 @ 12:14 am

Not taking the hot dog cart to the park on July 4?

Comment by xrazorwirex

October 18, 2009 @ 12:30 am

“I’m sure someone could invent a better analogy, given that the crowds show up when there’s a sale, not the other way around”

This is fine, because BFriday has turned into a sort of ‘crowds are gonna be there anyways’ kind of thing; unless by some eerie coincidence all the stores didn’t have a sale / closed shop on BF… which wont happen… so if you do close on BF you’re a terrible businessman and deserve to not make any of that money that you totally didn’t make because you’re stupid…. you stupid business man, you…

Although this is kinda different because it’s tragedy of the commons at its purest.

Comment by Russell Kanning

October 18, 2009 @ 5:33 am

well the Keene cops didn’t take the day off from tyranny like we hoped
good job guys

Comment by Another Stunt

October 18, 2009 @ 7:56 am

Another bullshit stunt by you assholes. Grow up and get a life. If you all were so bent on having the 420 go on, why no go to Robin Hood park, that is a public area and would not bother the people enjoying the fest. You all are nothing but one sided tunnel vision assholes. 4 more in jail, that is great keep it going KPD.

Comment by IHaveHadEnough

October 18, 2009 @ 8:09 am

Riot gear and OC next….get those clubs swinging and impose the will of the majority.
Take back our downtown.

Comment by bil

October 18, 2009 @ 9:53 am

Sorry,Viper,I was out and just logged in-you do get the originality award for your post.A Plus.
Don’t get me wrong,I have been fighting against government usurpation of freedom a long time,but on a different front.The reaction of the police was exactly what was expected and there would have been great disapointment from the smokers if there was no re-action.What I don’t get is the same sense of outrage every time.Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So stop being dismayed when the predictable happens.Try something different.Outflank.Attack from unexpected directions.Use your imagination.
—bil

Comment by Zappa Vishnu

October 18, 2009 @ 10:00 am

Look, you guys are young so on some level I realize this is just an exercise in futility — I never listened to anyone but my peers when I was young either — but try to understand YOU ARE NOT ROSA PARKS. Neither are you HARRIETTE TUBMAN. You are not fighting to end some great injustice that is causing the suffering death of untold thousands of human beings. You are fighting for your right to party. PARTY — not end a war, free a people from the bonds of ACTUAL slavery, or end a genocide. You are basically a bunch of hedonists who want to get high without fear of going to jail. Fair enough. You should be able to get high on pot without going to jail. BUT YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING A GREAT STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM. Sorry, but that’s the sad truth of it. And that is the way the vast majority of the folks you are trying to impress see it.
Here, let me put it plainly: People do not see you as freedom fighters. They see you as whiney, overpampered babies — that’s why so many of them want to see you spanked. And I don’t thinks that’s our fault. It’s just the way you come across. If you want to change something, you have to change it as adults. Otherwise you will forever be sitting at the kiddie table.

xoxo
Zap

Comment by IHaveHadEnough

October 18, 2009 @ 10:10 am

Well said Zappa

Comment by Zappa Vishnu

October 18, 2009 @ 10:29 am

Why don’t I ever see my typos until AFTER I post? I must be tired. After all, I was working ALL DAY AND NIGHT as a volunteer for the pumpkin fest so you could have a larger audience for your tantrums.

No need to thank me — Just doing my bit for a Free Keene. I feel a bit like Thomas Paine in that regard.

xoxo
Zap

Comment by Surrealpolichick

October 18, 2009 @ 11:07 am

To Zappa: “You are not fighting to end some great injustice that is causing the suffering death of untold thousands of human beings…” and “BUT YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING A GREAT STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM.”

Tell that to untold thousands in cages for smoking a plant.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/64

Comment by Zappa Vishnu

October 18, 2009 @ 11:28 am

>>Tell that to untold thousands in cages for smoking a plant.<<

Gee, I never thought of it like that. You make a compelling argument. I see now that you are EXACTLY like those great figures of the past who were willing to risk their very lives so that their people could be released from the bonds of slavery.

Future freedom fighters will take heart when they sing songs of your struggle and reflect on the great sacrifices you made so they could be free at last.

Free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty and Surrealpolichick we are FREE AT LAST!

How could I have been so blind?

xoxo
Zap

Comment by morons

October 18, 2009 @ 12:04 pm

Its always amazing to see how many people defend their slave masters. For you who are for gov thugs killing people for never hurting anyone… would you feel the same if “they” banned alcohol? would you love it if the swat team busted in your door, shot your dog and took you away to jail for 10 years for drinking a beer?

Comment by Paul

October 18, 2009 @ 12:30 pm

Zappa, I am not going to say the drug war is exactly the same, or as bad as segregation, or slavery. That’s not the reason Rosa Parks is mentioned. The point is that Rosa Parks was using civil disobedience to stand against an immoral law, and that is what we are doing today.

I don’t even use pot, never have, don’t plan to. But, I recognize that I do not own other people’s bodies. It is absolutely a liberty issue. And if you think people’s lives aren’t destroyed by the drug war, you’re dead wrong. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands in jail for simple possession, or the many, many victims of gang violence, which can only make money on drugs because of prohibition.

Tell it to the victims of botched raids, mostly drug raids, shown on this map: http://www.cato.org/raidmap/. Click on the dots and read the stories.

Comment by Dr. Q

October 18, 2009 @ 12:33 pm

Zappa, if ending a violent gang that tells people they don’t own their own bodies, charges millions of peaceful people with victimless “crimes,” and send SWAT teams to break into homes by night like the Gestapo, potentially murdering the residents is not a cause that freedom-lovers can get behind, then nothing is.

Comment by AnarchoJesse

October 18, 2009 @ 12:56 pm

I implore those who oppose the 420 festivals to come out and try to cage us themselves. After all, if it is the right thing to do, shouldn’t you put your money where you mouth is like we have with our rally? Or are you so chicken shit as to only give us your drive-by pwnage from the anonymity of the internet.

Until then, you’re all talk, venting your own impotent rage at the idea of people actually doing shit without your go ahead.

Comment by ihavehadenough

October 18, 2009 @ 2:59 pm

ANARCHOJESSE…..Is that a challenge? I would love to come out and bust your soft head and all the morons that are there. I guarantee you that a sober non-stoned retired vet can restrain at least several of you. Of course then I can claim kidnapping when the police come and drag me away for breaking the law that keeps you fuckers safe.

Comment by Brad

October 18, 2009 @ 3:48 pm

The cases brought against Mr. Obama claiming that he was not born in the US have (with one exception) been successfully defeated by challenging the standing of the individual who attempts to bring the case to court. The USDOJ does NOT attempt to challenge the facts (which would clarify the entire issue for once and for all, it seems).

This demonstrates that STANDING is more important than FACT in the (legal fiction we call) court.

SOMEONE has to bring charges against anyone to be tried in court. That PERSON must show standing, if challenged. No injury suggests that there will be no standing.

Challenge the standing of those who would bring charges without victims.

Comment by theKINGofKEENE

October 18, 2009 @ 10:33 pm

“…sober non-stoned retired vet…can restrain at least several of you…???…bullshit. Why don’t you call *ME* out on that one?…I’ll *GLADLY* take you up on that offer!…Maybe you *could* kick my ass, but are you really that violent, or just that angry???…If you really had enough, what are you doing still here???…&You really think that KPD would bother to arrest you???…you’re really the stupidest things I can find on the net right now, END GAME, & HADENOUGH!!!…(If you *TRIED*, but just *COULDN’T* “restrain me’, wouldn’t that *PROVE* that I *AM* actually, the “KING of KEENE”???…shit, my watch stopped at 4:19 again…

Comment by r3VOLutionist777

October 19, 2009 @ 2:24 am

I don’t smoke pot, this kind of behavior by the police makes me furious. The people aren’t going to take this forever.

Here’s a good way to deal with the police:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWhsF9I9lOc

Comment by Zappavishnu

October 19, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

Comment by morons
October 18, 2009 @ 12:04 pm
>> would you feel the same if “they” banned alcohol? would you love it if the swat team busted in your door<<
Well, I might expect to be thrown in the slammer if my friends and I threw a kegger on the commons. Especially if I spit beer in the cops face. And depending on how drunk I was I might even call them "nazis" for doing it too. But they're not nazis, you see? They're just doing law enforcement. That's what we pay them for.
I'd probably realize that too when I sobered up.
You should give that a try — sobriety.
Sobriety and maturity will really change your outlook on life.

xoxo
Zap

Comment by Paul

October 20, 2009 @ 12:18 am

No, Zappa, I don’t pay them to harass innocent people. I pay them because if I don’t they will come with guns and throw me out of my own home.

Comment by Zappavishnu

October 20, 2009 @ 12:41 pm

>>No, Zappa, I don’t pay them to harass innocent people.<<

So, I take that to mean you are pro keggers on the commons and spitting beer?

How far do your anti-law views extend? What about the guy who was innocently robbing the apothecary at knife point? Is it ok for the nazis to harrass him? After all he was just after some innocent recreational drug use. It's his body is it not?

But that's silly, right? Of course it is. The point is there are good laws and bad laws. Bad laws should be changed not broken – at least not without the expectation of consequences.

So do the hard work of getting a bad law changed and do it like a grown-up. Meanwhile, if you are caught breaking the bad law, take the consequences like a grown-up.

Politics is not for the childish or feint of heart.

Good luck

xoxo
Zap

Comment by EVERYONESMOKESWEED

October 22, 2009 @ 10:09 am

This whole day off talk?? 4:20 is everyday? thats the point of us out there smoking in the common to show that even in site were not hurting anyone. not even oursselfves these police are over the top. they cant just pick and choose what days there going to do something about smoking weed. WE ALL SMOKE ALL THE TIME EVERYDAY! they just need to legalize the shit so everyone can become more comfertable with it. cuz im thinking… its not going anywhere for a looong time.