Kurt Released – Dinner Party at Athens Pizza Tonight at 6:30

November 19, 2009 by Ian
Filed under: Announcement, Jailed Activist, Update

Kurt Aubern was on her way to pick Kurt up from the prison in Westmoreland and she left this message on Porc 411.

Dinner party to be held tonight at 6:30 at Athens Pizza in Keene at 133 Main St! (Athens Pizza is in no way affiliated with FreeKeene.com)

Hopefully, Kurt will continue to blog here now that he is out, so look for his first post from the outside – likely coming soon.

Snowdog

I'm so happy for you, Kurt. Six weeks in jail for — doing nothing. I think you're a brave fellow, and respect you for that.
http://www.patrickscottshields.com Patrick Shields

Can we get some specifics, please? Why did they release him?
Fraker

Yay!
http://www.dooms-day-device.com Puke

All his wounds must have healed sufficiently to leave little evidence.
Lonzo5

Wow! That's awesome. Can't wait to hear about it on tomorrow's show. BTW, is FTL on the air in San Diego? Ive been wanting to call in for awhile, but I'd prefer to catch you guys on the air. Way to go, Kurt!
Vesuvius

Glad to hear you are out! However, I would recommend you give your business to Amicci's rather than Athens, on account of the deplorable way the owners treat their employees. On the other hand, that puts decent people's jobs at risk. What is one to do?
theKINGofKEENE

Saying "I told you so" never feels as good as times like this. I *TOLD YOU GUYS* there's no way even Burke-the-jerk would keep Kurt incarcerated the whole 6 months. You don't think that he's really stupid enough to give the FREEDOM MOVEMENT *THAT* much leverage, do you?…I'm SO GLAD YOU'RE (sorta)FREE, KURT! WOO-HOO!…
Peacemaker

I hear you pat, would love some specifics as well.
AnAmazedReader

A mentally unstable loser with terrible impulse/anger-control issues whose so-called "friends" applaud and enable his disability instead of pointing out that his life is devolving into an utter mess. Tribal fealty once again trumps personal compassion. Nice people.

FreeKeene.com: "Pitilessly enabling self-destructive behavior since 2002"
Vesuvius

A gloriously condescending cunt with nothing but contempt for her fellow humans, whose husband refuses to touch her anymore. Get over yourself Ann.

The only person applauding or enabling what happened to Kurt is YOU. He ended up in jail for refusing a "judge" the respect he demands and does not deserve. He became wheelchair bound from having his head bounced off of a concrete block wall for trying to hug his wife.

You constantly deride the apparently vacuous lives of anybody associated with Free Keene or libertarian values without having any clue who these people are, what they have accomplished in their lives, or what riches and comfort they may have given up to move to NH. Deny it all you want, but there is a revolution coming – violent or otherwise. "The people" do not feel represented, they are sick of confiscatory taxation and having to live in constant fear of the enforcement branch of ANY government bureaucracy kicking in their door. That is the reality of modern America and you know it.

What does your hateful rancor say about you? It tells me you have the most unfulfilling or non-existent relationships, since you seemingly transfer your self-loathing onto a group of people you've never met. You are so cowardly that you can't discuss the real problems and imminent dangers in this country and the world, so instead you launch venomous diatribes between botox treatments. While clearly intelligent, you also come off as a vicious and horrible person – the type that cheered the loudest when heretics were "purified" in the town square.
Sam A. Robrin

Comment by AnAmazedReader

A mentally unstable loser with terrible impulse/anger-control issues whose so-called “friends” applaud and enable his disability instead of pointing out that his life is devolving into an utter mess. Tribal fealty once again trumps personal compassion. Nice people.

Are you referring to Judge Burke or Eli Rivera?
http://ringingliberty.com Paul

An, why don't you show a modicum of intellectual honesty, and answer the questions I've put to you many times, instead of projecting the violent, arbitrary, and abusive characteristics of the government organization you so desperately support, onto innocent and peaceful people trying to mind their own business and be left alone by said violent organization?

I'd be happy to provide the link to the questions once again, at your request.
ihavehadenough

Ann…

You are not alone. I have just been away.

I too was going to ask if he learned any manners or respect while in the "cage" he put himself in….

Hey Vesuvius….what the hell does her husband have to do with anything. Of course you free state fucks can get nasty and mean anytime you want "for the cause" but all the rest of your critics are wrong and hateful and violent when they express ideas like that.

Paul…more of your pointless circular logic questions? Any one ever actually answer you or is it universal that your questions are pointless.

Even if anybody did apply statistics and facts you would discard it as being statist generated or biased…thats why no one ever actually wants to discuss things with you guys…LPVIPER dont forget him too…we just want to beat you down and remind you every once in a while that you are a meaningless little ultra minority that has no bearing on the real lives of real people.
END GAME

The double standards that you liberty lovers display, is unbelievable. I say something that is derogatory to you and your ilk, and I am a jackbooted facist, or hood wearing lyncher. You spew your vitrol and you are freedom fighters.

You are just the same as all of us…. you try and loft yourselves above the hate and violence, but when push comes to shove you still attack with the same "hateful" vigor, as us.
http://ringingliberty.com Paul

Yes, Enough, Kurt was a bad serf. They need to teach 'im some manners. Maybe if the cage doesn't work, some whippings would learn 'im what happens when he gives his masters lip.

In all seriousness, I don't agree with what Vesuvius said — he should not stoop to your level. But hey, at least he just responded in kind when An said something he considered rude. He didn't try to throw An in jail for six months.

My questions simply asked An's opinion on certain situations, and what An's moral principles are. Yes, people willing to have an honest discussion answer questions such as these. Name(required) and End Game answered, although they haven't yet responded to my latest reply.

The first part of the discussion with EG and NR, who I give credit to for at least starting to answer the questions, may be found here (starting on post 85017): http://freekeene.com/2009/11/07/join-us-for-socia…

You do know what the definition of circular logic is, don't you? These are called substantive quesitons leading to meaningful discussion, rather than the usual mud flinging you seem to be used to. My opinion of you would go up drastically if you were to engage in such an honest discussion, and carry it through.
http://ringingliberty.com Paul

EG,

I do not approve of those who use hateful rhetoric. But, you throw "violence and hate" together. They are not the same. Vesuvious' response does seem hateful. It is only you and your ilk, however, who use violence.
http://soundclick.com/thinkliberty thinkliberty

<blockquote cite="">
You are just the same as all of us…. you try and loft yourselves above the hate and violence, but when push comes to shove you still attack with the same “hateful” vigor, as us.

No End Game. We are not the same. Hate and violence is wrong and when push comes to shove hate and violence is still wrong.

We would never send someone to prison for 6 months for asking someone to say please, like you and your Judge Burke did to Kurt. When Kurt was in held in a cage by your men with guns, no one pushed back with violence.

Please stop blindly following a violent system that kidnaps, cages, tortures and kills people.

Give peace and non-violence a chance.

Are you afraid of peace? Do you fear not being able to lock up peaceful people? Why do you give in to hate and support violence End Game? Do you like the way that hate makes you feel? Does violence consume your thoughts? Do you day dream about hurting people and watching them suffer?

What will you lose, if you support peace and non-violence?

What do you gain from your hate and violence? Are you paid by the state? Do you fear that you won't be able to feed your family, unless you commit acts of violence against people for the state?
Vesuvius

I very rarely, if ever, post here. I'm just fed up with the tireless insults that come from the person posting as "AnAmazedReader". You are only a "jackbooted thug" when you advocate smashing in peoples skulls for smoking a plant. Or for deviating from YOUR accepted social norms. Be civil to me and I will respond in kind. Come at me with nothing but demeaning high school bullshit and that's what I'll respond with. Unrepentantly insult a good man for standing up for himself and don't be surprised when it comes back your way.

I made no threats or wishes of ill will toward Ann. I simply responded with what she keeps throwing at anybody she happens to disagree with. She makes frequent jabs at the inter-personal relationships she imagines the people she is deriding have. You do not know Kurt Hoffman. The man can barely stand on his own and all you can do is hurl insults at him. He is a good man. He loves his wife and family. Kurt is the type of man who prays for a stranger to get well, and you are a man/woman that hisses curses at a stranger when they are down. He says what he feels, even if it is somewhat "rude."

I'm fed up with baseless, degrading, uncalled for comments like this: "no bearing on the real lives of real people." You don't see people as equals, you see them as groups that you can assign and discard. I go to school full time, work when i'm not in class, pursue hobbies and creative outlets. I have many friends that I cherish and a few women I have loved deeply. Yet you say I am not a real person? Would you have hopped right on the bandwagon of dehumanizing Jews, blacks, Jap-Americans? THAT is why I made a nasty little comment. Not for "the cause." Because that's all you people come here to do – shit on strangers who have had enough of their wealth being stolen, their country being carved up and sold off to the highest bidder. You may not agree with their methods but at least these strangers you despise are doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING to fix this train wreck. Sorry, I forgot – you vote.

I have had enough of 60 years of proxy state police actions in the middle east. They don't "hate our freedom." Radical Islamic terrorists want to kill Americans because of the generations of destruction and Hell the US government has brought them.

I wish you would understand that "the movement" is not "Us free state fucks" against "you real people." It is everyday people coming together because we're right where we started 223 years ago. A significant population of the North American continent is severely disenfranchised and have many grievances they want to redress. Some are anarchists. Some honestly believe they can affect change within the system. Some, rightly so, view the system as the disease. Others, like myself, are glad to have a little support. I grew up seeing "Live Free or Die" everywhere I turned, and the meaning of those words did not fall away with the pile of stones it so often appears with.
ihavehadenough

Paul…

"You do know what the definition of circular logic is, don’t you? These are called substantive quesitons leading to meaningful discussion, rather than the usual mud flinging you seem to be used to. My opinion of you would go up drastically if you were to engage in such an honest discussion, and carry it through"

What makes you think I give a shit what you think of me or any other opinion of yours….
theKINGofKEENE

DEAR Ms. "IHAVEHADENOUGH": What makes *YOU* think, that *I* think, that you *THINK* at all…???…&, I'm pretty sure you would *NEVER* give a shit. I'm 100% convinced that you *CHERISH* & *NURTURE* your *SHIT*, and would never, never, *EVER* give *ANY* of your shit away…that's why you will *ALWAYS* be *FULL OF IT*!….
http://xrindustries.com xrazorwirex

"What makes you think I give a shit what you think of me or any other opinion of yours…."

LOL, you totally win…

Who can beat that "logic"?
http://ringingliberty.com Paul

IHave,

I don't expect you to care about my opinion of you. But, I would expect that you would be capable of answering questions honestly, and taking care that you do not have self-contradictory positions. For example, many state that they believe even immoral laws should always be obeyed, but then honor the actions of MLK, Gandhi, and Rosa Parks. You can't have it both ways. Either we must all be brainless plebs who do whatever the government tells us to, or we must have moral principles, and be capable of standing against laws we consider to be immoral.

I would think that any intellectually honest person would require of themselves that they be capable of answering such questions, and would welcome the opportunity to examine their own beliefs more closely. I know I'd be happy to answer such questions.

But then, I suppose a great many are more interested in maintaining their own delusions than they are in honest thought. Probably, and sadly, there are more of these people than there ever have been in this country. At the least, we Americans used to be capable of a decent intellectual debate.
theKINGofKEENE

Paul, if you ask me the Q?'s, *I'LL* answer them, OK?…What were they again?…i'm serious, i'll answer them…just ask!…
http://ringingliberty.com Paul

Ok TKOK

(1a). Do you believe certain laws can be unjust or immoral?
(1b). If the answer to 1a is yes, do you believe these unjust or immoral laws should still be obeyed?
(1c). If the answer to 1b is yes, would you have obeyed laws forcing escaped slaves to be sent back to plantations, in 1840, for example?

(2). Suppose at the creation of the world I find myself living near two other people. Now, suppose myself, and my first neighbor, wish to steal from the other. My second neighbor simply wishes to live in peace. My first neighbor and I hold a “constitutional convention”, and determine by two thirds majority, that we will have a democracy. We then vote to steal from our neighbor, and the motion passes by two thirds majority, which of course is binding, since we have already determined that we shall live in a democracy. It’s now the law that we shall take the property of our neighbor, and since there are two of us and one of him, overwhelm him by force and do so immediately. Or, of course, we could give him a chance to leave, at which point we get his farm anyway.

Do you believe this scenario is any different, or more moral, than common theft?

(3) Do you believe taxes are theft? If not, why not?
theKINGofKING

Paul

November 30, 2009 @ 12:29 am

Ok TKOK

(1a). Do you believe certain laws can be unjust or immoral?

(1b). If the answer to 1a is yes, do you believe these unjust or immoral laws should still be obeyed?

(1c). If the answer to 1b is yes, would you have obeyed laws forcing escaped slaves to be sent back to plantations, in 1840, for example?

(2). Suppose at the creation of the world I find myself living near two other people. Now, suppose myself, and my first neighbor, wish to steal from the other. My second neighbor simply wishes to live in peace. My first neighbor and I hold a “constitutional convention”, and determine by two thirds majority, that we will have a democracy. We then vote to steal from our neighbor, and the motion passes by two thirds majority, which of course is binding, since we have already determined that we shall live in a democracy. It’s now the law that we shall take the property of our neighbor, and since there are two of us and one of him, overwhelm him by force and do so immediately. Or, of course, we could give him a chance to leave, at which point we get his farm anyway.

Do you believe this scenario is any different, or more moral, than common theft?

(3) Do you believe taxes….etc…/////…….

OK, here's my answers: 1.(a): I believe that many existing NH RSA's, and all other laws, *ARE* unjust and immoral, and moreso in the implementing and "enforcement" of them. Selective enforcement, (*NOT*: "exercise of officers' discretion" which is a very different, although similar-seeming thing)selective enforcement, which is the S.O.P./M.O. for KPD, is worse than the laws themselves. Hopefully, that will change after Art Walker is gone…The problem, as I see it, isn't so much the majority rule, it's *TYRANNY OF THE MAJORITY*, in the absence of *RESPECT FOR MINORITY RIGHTS*. Again, lack of respect for minority rights is S.O.P./M.O. for KPD. Yes, theKINGofKEENE is a Native NH NIGGER.//////……………. 1.(b): Should these laws be obeyed? Generally, no. In some cases, yes. Again, given the current realities we often are faced with a "lesser of 2 evils" situation…I honestly don't know which is worse, having young teenagers smoking cigarettes, or arresting them for the "crime" of it…Actually, I'm glad that's not my call… 1(c.):Most likely, not. I would probably have been an active conductor on the "Underground Railroad". But then again, if I'd been born & raised in a slave-owning Southern state in the 1840's, vs. a Northern "Free"(Hah!) State, I might answer differently……………………………………*NOTE: Dude, the premise in Q? 2 is *SO*FAULTY*, that the Q? is essentially unanswerable….Of course, what the 2 "neighbors" did/do to the 1 "neighbor" is wrong. "Stealing", by definition, is wrong, so any course of action that flows from a decision to steal is, a priori, & de facto, *WRONG*…That's a very similar scenario to the whole Adam/Eve/Cain/Abel creation myth in the Bible. Where did Cain's *WIFE* come from???…According to what the Bible *SAYS*, *LITERALLY*, can YOU come up with any other possibility than these 2:?: Either Cain impregnates his Mother, Eve, and marries his sister ~15 years later, or Cain marries and impregnates his sister. What other possible options exist? None, that I can see!…………Your Q? #3 suffers from much the same flawed rationalization/reasoning as the first ones….I'd say that there are both fair & unfair taxes. Just and unjust taxes. Taxes that both are, and aren't theft. What you're doing here, Paul, probably has a name in some advanced logic/philosophy course! You're taking a cool slogan, "Taxes are theft.", and conflating it with a question, by twisting it around into "Are taxes theft"???…Paul, if you want better answers, you're gonna have to come up with better questions. That's just all there is to it. I will wait patiently! I'm looking forward to answering better questions.! ~tKoK~
http://ringingliberty.com Paul

Not sure we're you're going with the Cain and Abel thing, KOK, but I think the questions are quite answerable. It seems you are saying that you recognize that it would be immoral for the two to take from the one, even if they did so in the context of a so called "democracy".

KOK, which taxes would you say are not theft, and why?
theKINGofKEENE

I'm saying that your example, which starts out, …"2). Suppose at the creation of the world I find myself living near two other…", is just as illogical, irrational, and baseless as the Biblical creation story of Adam & Eve. I think it's a very poor "example story"…*THAT'S* where I'm going w/it…& isn't the *MINIMUM*NUMBER* of persons required to create a "democracy", much more than even 3, or 4???…Yes, "stealing", or "taking w/out right" is always wrong…I'll answer the Q? of which taxes aren't theft later, OK??…We're on the right track, maybe even the same page, but Paul, I think that you're using the examples you choose, designed to "funnel" the answer you're looking for…It's as if you're saying…AH!, later, OK???…
theKINGofKEENE

(Paul, I suspect we agree, more than not, but it's the words/ideas/concepts that make it *SEEM* as if we dis-agree more than we do. Whaddya' think? Maybe?…)I'm more of a "neo-Federalist", – "No taxation w/out representation", all that???…no tyranny of the majority, minority rights, that sort of thing…politically, I'm fairly middle-of-the-road, amongst all the extremes…i see gov't as a "necessary evil", doncha' know…///…NAME(REQURED) really insulted me in a virulently nasty post on another thread…I feel as if weasels ripped my flesh…i need to go "hang around"…*grin*
theKINGofKEENE

Americans used to be capable of a decent intellectual debate.

Comment by Paul

November 25, 2009 @ 4:20 am ….(…*SOME*of us still R!…)
http://ringingliberty.com Paul

It's a thought experiment, KOK, intended to remove other distracting elements and focus on the core issue — the question of whether majority approval, or the use of government procedures, justify what would otherwise be considered immoral acts.

What rights do you believe the minority has? Do they include the right to keep the fruit of their labor?

Are you saying that it's a matter of scale — two people voting to mug one is immoral, but two hundred million voting to mug one hundred million is moral? Why does this change the situation? If you have a right not to be robbed, why would that right disappear simply because you have a large number of attackers?