Comments on: Part 2 of Andrew’s VT Holding : The Search http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/ Peaceful Evolution Wed, 23 May 2012 18:02:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Paul http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85608 Paul Tue, 15 Dec 2009 02:14:03 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85608 I can agree that those who vote for a person for public office bear some moral responsibility for what they do -- especially if it could have been expected at the time of the election. It's true that it would not happen if there were no popular support. That said, I can blame George W Bush for being a bad president -- really, I think the responsibility lies both with him and with his supporters. I can agree that those who vote for a person for public office bear some moral responsibility for what they do — especially if it could have been expected at the time of the election.

It's true that it would not happen if there were no popular support.

That said, I can blame George W Bush for being a bad president — really, I think the responsibility lies both with him and with his supporters.

]]> By: nhwhig http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85606 nhwhig Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:21:23 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85606 No, you obviously missed my argument. I was stating that everyone is responsible. Rather than solely placing the blame on the people of the government, blame must also go towards the people who put those people into government. Why is it okay to keep slapping John the Mayor's hand when it is the City of Keene's fault for electing him? Look at the presidency, you can't completely blame George W. Bush for being a bad president because the American public was responsible for putting him in that position. Everyone fails to understand that it is the American people who are in the driver's seat. Because we are in the driver's seat, we need to learn to accept the blame ourselves because this is our society. No, you obviously missed my argument. I was stating that everyone is responsible. Rather than solely placing the blame on the people of the government, blame must also go towards the people who put those people into government. Why is it okay to keep slapping John the Mayor's hand when it is the City of Keene's fault for electing him? Look at the presidency, you can't completely blame George W. Bush for being a bad president because the American public was responsible for putting him in that position.

Everyone fails to understand that it is the American people who are in the driver's seat. Because we are in the driver's seat, we need to learn to accept the blame ourselves because this is our society.

]]> By: Paul http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85588 Paul Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:49:00 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85588 Nice try, nhwhig, but every person is responsible for their own actions. Even if everyone in my apartment block agrees that I should go vandalize the property of that jerk in 14g, or wants me to go steal their property so we can split it among ourselves, it would still be wrong for me to do so. "Everyone else was doing it", or, "I was ordered to do it" are pathetic excuses for immoral behavior. Nice try, nhwhig, but every person is responsible for their own actions. Even if everyone in my apartment block agrees that I should go vandalize the property of that jerk in 14g, or wants me to go steal their property so we can split it among ourselves, it would still be wrong for me to do so.

"Everyone else was doing it", or, "I was ordered to do it" are pathetic excuses for immoral behavior.

]]> By: nhwhig http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85585 nhwhig Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:16:26 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85585 The quote I was referring to was this: “Justice is conscience, not a personal conscience but the conscience of the whole of humanity. Those who clearly recognize the voice of their own conscience usually recognize also the voice of justice.”- Alexander Solzhenitsyn The quote I was referring to was this:

“Justice is conscience, not a personal conscience but the conscience of the whole of humanity. Those who clearly recognize the voice of their own conscience usually recognize also the voice of justice.”- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

]]> By: nhwhig http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85584 nhwhig Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:52:01 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85584 The world today only seems to find two sides: good and evil/bad/wrong. We discuss issues like whether cops are good or bad and their role in our society. However, we all fail to realize that there are varying degrees of nearly everything. With cops, even within a department there are different types of people. Different departments are different from each other. I will guarantee that local cops will treat a violator differently than a state trooper or even a big city cop. We all fail to recognize the human element in everything, that various things are dependent on the emotions of each and every person. It is extremely irresponsible to say that something is "always" or "never" something. <q cite="“Justice is conscience, not a personal conscience but the conscience of the whole of humanity. Those who clearly recognize the voice of their own conscience usually recognize also the voice of justice.”- Alexander Solzhenitsyn"> I love this quote because it captures the essence of government, how it is a body created by the people to resolve collective-action problems. It is adjusted to fit the needs of the people and that it is the people who control the way it works. The so-called "bureaucrats" are people themselves and aren't the robots that many contributors to this site claim they are. This quote shows that the government is reflective of what the people want. The laws are a reflection of what the general population feel are issues. The people of government are elected because the people of society felt that they were the best choice to fulfill the needs of society. It is not the fault of the people of government that society doesn't bend to the favor of ultra-libertarian/anarchist/"voluntaryist" faction of society, it is the fault of the people of society for wanting that. So stop blaming the government and blame your neighbors, your relatives, and your acquaintances for creating a society that works against your "preferences." Seriously, grow up.</q> The world today only seems to find two sides: good and evil/bad/wrong. We discuss issues like whether cops are good or bad and their role in our society. However, we all fail to realize that there are varying degrees of nearly everything. With cops, even within a department there are different types of people. Different departments are different from each other. I will guarantee that local cops will treat a violator differently than a state trooper or even a big city cop. We all fail to recognize the human element in everything, that various things are dependent on the emotions of each and every person. It is extremely irresponsible to say that something is "always" or "never" something.

<q cite="“Justice is conscience, not a personal conscience but the conscience of the whole of humanity. Those who clearly recognize the voice of their own conscience usually recognize also the voice of justice.”- Alexander Solzhenitsyn">

I love this quote because it captures the essence of government, how it is a body created by the people to resolve collective-action problems. It is adjusted to fit the needs of the people and that it is the people who control the way it works. The so-called "bureaucrats" are people themselves and aren't the robots that many contributors to this site claim they are. This quote shows that the government is reflective of what the people want. The laws are a reflection of what the general population feel are issues. The people of government are elected because the people of society felt that they were the best choice to fulfill the needs of society. It is not the fault of the people of government that society doesn't bend to the favor of ultra-libertarian/anarchist/"voluntaryist" faction of society, it is the fault of the people of society for wanting that. So stop blaming the government and blame your neighbors, your relatives, and your acquaintances for creating a society that works against your "preferences."

Seriously, grow up.</q>

]]> By: name(required) http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85583 name(required) Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:08:22 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85583 Ihavehadenough, In refference to 85524 where you admonish Keeneteen for being young, idealistic, oversimplistic and unable to comprehend the complex ideas and theories presented. It is clear to me, that if he had not divulged his age, he would be indistinguishable from any other age group who writes in here. More to the point, your adjectives used to describe him are hillariously accurate in describing most of the people involved with free keene. The only active mechanisms at work for this whole group are misguided idealism and oversimlicity. If you took those away, there would be nothing. Take a poll and see how many bread winning mortgage holders are reading this right now. What, you think the 4:20 thing was a bunch of working mothers and fathers taking the day off early to fight injustice? Give me a break.You need to take another look at your demographic. KT has outclassed you and certainly does not merit any condesention from your direction. It is nauseating to think the concepts here are reguarded as too complex for others. Thats what is so funny to me, when some one outside the FK disagrees with people here, the assumption is that the person simply does not understand your stance. It is an unbelievably arrogant premise for debate. After all, who could hate liberty and freedom? Concepts which are so universally understood and defined. What evil soul could disagree with the NAP when harm is such a direct apparent and and non subjective concept? Every one else is just too simple I suppose. Ihavehadenough,

In refference to 85524 where you admonish Keeneteen for being young, idealistic, oversimplistic and unable to comprehend the complex ideas and theories presented. It is clear to me, that if he had not divulged his age, he would be indistinguishable from any other age group who writes in here. More to the point, your adjectives used to describe him are hillariously accurate in describing most of the people involved with free keene. The only active mechanisms at work for this whole group are misguided idealism and oversimlicity. If you took those away, there would be nothing. Take a poll and see how many bread winning mortgage holders are reading this right now. What, you think the 4:20 thing was a bunch of working mothers and fathers taking the day off early to fight injustice? Give me a break.You need to take another look at your demographic. KT has outclassed you and certainly does not merit any condesention from your direction. It is nauseating to think the concepts here are reguarded as too complex for others. Thats what is so funny to me, when some one outside the FK disagrees with people here, the assumption is that the person simply does not understand your stance. It is an unbelievably arrogant premise for debate. After all, who could hate liberty and freedom? Concepts which are so universally understood and defined. What evil soul could disagree with the NAP when harm is such a direct apparent and and non subjective concept? Every one else is just too simple I suppose.

]]> By: Paul http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85580 Paul Sun, 13 Dec 2009 04:20:50 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85580 Teen, I'd be interested in your thoughts on my last post, and quotes, when you have some time. Thanks! I agree with the first two quotes in your post above, and partially agree with the last one. It can be right to use force for the sake of justice, but I think there are also sometimes non-forceful ways justice can be had -- for example, using boycotts, ostracism, etc. Teen,

I'd be interested in your thoughts on my last post, and quotes, when you have some time. Thanks!

I agree with the first two quotes in your post above, and partially agree with the last one. It can be right to use force for the sake of justice, but I think there are also sometimes non-forceful ways justice can be had — for example, using boycotts, ostracism, etc.

]]> By: Keene Teen http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85579 Keene Teen Sun, 13 Dec 2009 03:15:16 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85579 Paulo, I must be honest and say I also have a hard time dissecting this quote. I think what he means is that justice is a belief or thought. Inside of us all there is a general feeling about what we think is right and what is wrong. Even though we all interoperate things differently in our own minds, we can still all come to an agreement on some level. This is how I interoperated the quote...but it is a very tricky one to dissect and could mean any number of things really. Thanks for being supportive as well as understanding and reflecting on my comments. I do plan to keep posting on other videos ect... as well. I do enjoy debating and being able to voice my opinions on matters. The good thing about me doing so is, I know from personal experience its always nice to hear some of the more opposite opinions on matters because it helps us understand each other better and gives us some insight that we may have otherwise not received. Although I am not a libertarian or free stater I’m sure that I may have a few opinions in common as those of the movement, and am looking forward to continue getting my voice out there. Couple more quotes you may like or want to ponder. “We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future.”-F.D,R “The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.”- Friedrich Nietzsche “Justice without force is powerless; force without justice is tyrannical.”-Blaise Pascal Thanks again, The Keene Teen Paulo,

I must be honest and say I also have a hard time dissecting this quote. I think what he means is that justice is a belief or thought. Inside of us all there is a general feeling about what we think is right and what is wrong. Even though we all interoperate things differently in our own minds, we can still all come to an agreement on some level. This is how I interoperated the quote…but it is a very tricky one to dissect and could mean any number of things really.

Thanks for being supportive as well as understanding and reflecting on my comments. I do plan to keep posting on other videos ect… as well. I do enjoy debating and being able to voice my opinions on matters. The good thing about me doing so is, I know from personal experience its always nice to hear some of the more opposite opinions on matters because it helps us understand each other better and gives us some insight that we may have otherwise not received. Although I am not a libertarian or free stater I’m sure that I may have a few opinions in common as those of the movement, and am looking forward to continue getting my voice out there.

Couple more quotes you may like or want to ponder.

“We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future.”-F.D,R

“The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.”- Friedrich Nietzsche

“Justice without force is powerless; force without justice is tyrannical.”-Blaise Pascal

Thanks again,

The Keene Teen

]]> By: iawai http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85571 iawai Thu, 10 Dec 2009 13:15:50 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85571 It is a sad state of today’s society and police that this is how they choose to spend their time. They are so thirsty for their quota of certain busts and to ruin the lives of nonviolent youth that they seek out to search vehicles and attempt to create a scene in the hopes that they can capture some harmless plant material. Instead of assisting people and bettering the community they would rather waste taxpayer money and public serveant [sic] time. I feel sad for these people and the life they have choose [sic]. It is a sad state of today’s society and police that this is how they choose to spend their time. They are so thirsty for their quota of certain busts and to ruin the lives of nonviolent youth that they seek out to search vehicles and attempt to create a scene in the hopes that they can capture some harmless plant material. Instead of assisting people and bettering the community they would rather waste taxpayer money and public serveant [sic] time. I feel sad for these people and the life they have choose [sic].

]]> By: ihavehadenough http://freekeene.com/2009/12/03/part-2-of-andrews-vt-holding-the-search/comment-page-1/#comment-85570 ihavehadenough Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:36:27 +0000 http://freekeene.com/?p=4371#comment-85570 Mike, What the hell are you talking about? Every point you make is flawed. Assist law enforcement? Better the community. The two are so opposed that its like fire and ice! Mike,

What the hell are you talking about? Every point you make is flawed. Assist law enforcement? Better the community. The two are so opposed that its like fire and ice!

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