A “fellow libertarian” used force against me
Filed under: Civil Disobedience, Hypocrisy, Living Free, Noncooperation, Personal Freedom, Thuggery, Video
A few days ago, some friends and I were clearing brush on my property in Grafton, preparing to building a house, and we were burning some small stuff to make a fire to cook hot dogs on. Suddenly, thugs appeared and threatened us with violence if we didn’t put our fire out. We politely refused to comply with their threats, and more thugs came, and eventually the fire chief of Grafton, John Babiarz, who is a self-proclaimed libertarian (he’s apparently the libertarian party’s current gubernatorial candidate for NH), brought a fire truck and put out my camp fire. This may sound ridiculous, but it looks even more ridiculous. Check out the video.
I am displeased with the aggression against me. I will not be paying any citations or bills that are sent to me (the cop said he’s cite me and the fire department said they’s send me a bill for their “services”). But what bugs me the most is Babiarz’s cowardice to tell the cop that this was a perfectly safe situation and the violence wasn’t necessary, especially since Babiarz claims to be pro-liberty (hell, I heard him just last week at a potluck tell a “newbie” to liberty that government wasn’t necessary!).
Also, FYI, the previous owner of this property told me that Babiarz, himself, gave him a permit for this fire pit 2 years ago (and the shed existed even then), even though Babiarz, in the video, explains how this fire pit could not get a permit because it’s too close to a structure. And multiple other sources I trust have told me that Babiarz has hung out with them at this fire pit – with a fire burning – within the past couple years.
I’d like to stress that I was just living my life, peacefully, harmlessly. I was not trying to educate anyone about liberty, or make a point, or create a scene, or act civilly disobedient. The thugs came to me with their aggression, as they appear to do more and more often.
This is a thread about this on the forum.
Comments
26 Comments on A “fellow libertarian” used force against me
When all you have is a firehose everything looks like an inferno.
This is the type of situation for which cops are supposed to exercise discretion and let it be, or simply supervise for a while. In the real world, discretion is always abused and cops retaliate against those who do not obey them, no matter how trivial the issue.
That’s odd… my comment from yesterday disappeared.
I’m sorry you were treated that way Mike.
Interestingly, under the state laws (which are established by your consent, so we’re told), any unpermitted burn absent snow on the ground can land one in the slammer for a year.
Actually,there are good reasons for the law,it is not just someone in power using force for the fun of it.As a volunteer fireman,I have spent many hours each year fighting fires that have gotten away and spread.even in a voluntary society there would have to be some sort of rules for the common good,as this is the sort of thing that once started,spreads where it will,prevention is the only cure.Even though the ground may look wet,heat from an advancing fire dries it out real quick.I have fought fires both here and in California,where loss of life and property have occured.
That being said,I also believe thet discression is called for,I don’t know if you guys had a hose or other water supply there,but it was a properly constructed fire pit,small fire,not a lot going on.However,the response is a standard one,and if the conditions are not bad-windy,dry- a permit can be called in for.It is not an onerous condition,it is mostly designed so that if someone sees smoke or fire and reports it,central dispatch has a record of it,and saves time and money by not sending a crew.Remember that these are all volunteers,regular people that take time out of work to help save your lives and property,with no payment,actually at their own cost. —bil
“I do hereby swear and affirm, under penalty of perjury, that I will *NEVER* set foot in Grafton, NH. I make this oath to PROTECT the SAFETY of the *DINOSAUR*(living fossil….)known in this video as “MERLE”. Merle, dude, you are a SHAME AND DISGRACE to the flag you so ignorantly wear on your right shoulder…” I pray that I never see you in my town. If you want to know why kids these days have so *LITTLE RESPECT* for laws, law enforcement, & all LEO’S, watch the video, look in the mirror. I have seen my enemies. You’re one of them, Merle. You’re an enemy of the American People. Another goddamn *BARNEY FIFE*…(God help us all…P.S.: That looks like my buddie’s car that you were leaning against, Merle. If I find out that WAS my buddies car, you better take a long vacation in, oh, CANADA, MOTHERFUCKER!…////…..*I AM THE ONGOING MILITARY COUP*……..
Bil, I think the issue is the focus on the law, or “codes” rather than common sense. That was a tiny fire in a well contained area.
While I believe in a forceful defense to protect persons or property from immediate attack/danger, I think the idea that that tiny, well supervised and contained fire was an imminent threat, is silly. To me, this seems clearly to be about code enforcement.
I don’t know if there was a hose available, but if this fire was really such an imminent threat that force was warranted, which I find very hard to believe, they could have resolved the situation by filling a couple buckets full of water and leaving them there.
I think volunteer firemen are outstanding for what they do (my brother’s one). It’s exactly the kind “of neighbors helping neighbors” approach we need far more of in our communities. I think this situation could have been handled far, far better however. This was not common sense — it was a respect my athoritah moment on the part of the cop — and John went along with it.
In 2004, NH was one of 2 states that the LP did not make the ballot in.
In 2008, they only did it with the help of the National LP.
Many of the FSP’s activists seem to feel they need to reinvent every strategy ever conceived by political man on their own. Hence, they wind up being easy pawns for the establishment, which has made it a point to know strategy first and foremost.
Paul-I agree with you-there was no permit,so the fire was going to be put out.No amount of arguing about safety would have prevailed,that is how a ‘lesson’ is shown.I have seen a fire in a hibachi put out for the same reason.I am not saying they were right,just the reason for the permit in the first place.As for the hose,you will notine that the fire department had a perfectly good hose-set on fog and spray,stir,re-spray and no more fire.However,add the foam nozzle,and it becomes a learning tool! If you don’t want another mess of foam,get a permit next time! School is out for the day.Yes,it should have been handled with a bit more common sense and discretion.Code enforcement certainly was the point here.
I like the part where the cop is leaning on the car.One time when I was waiting to be questioned by the police,one of them came up to me and gave me a bunch of crap for leaning on a car.He then told me to ‘move along’,and I was standing too close to where they were having a conversation about the line of questioning they were going to use on a ‘suspect’.I had to tell him it was my car,they had moved their conversation closer to me,as I hadn’t moved,and I would not be ‘moving along’as I was the one they were going to question.For some reason,all that made them upset.They then proceded to lean on my car! —bil
Jake Witmer, I don’t see the point in mentioning the LP in NH, however, you may have made a mistake. In 2008, the LP had two different people on the final ballot in NH. One of them made it on the ballot before the national LP tried to help the NH LP get Bob Barr on the ballot. But yes, the national did help a bunch of states, including NH, get Bob Barr on the ballot in 2008. I know some LP people in NH that voted for the other LP on the ballot, though.
A great sign of Mike Barskeys level of intelligence: notice the scrolling text in the video at 5:30 that states, quote; “so are freedom is violated?”. Are freedom? Grammar on par with an 8 year old? Please don’t trust this man.
Hey bil, ever heard of voluntary zoning? There are ways for property owners to protect their land from their neighbor’s fires, if they wish. Even if their neighbors don’t engage in voluntary zoning, no crime has been committed UNTIL destruction of property occurs. In a free society, people have enough rope to hang themselves. In an unfree society, all behavior is regulated in the attempt to prevent crimes, or even worse, accidents. What is sad is that it has the unintended consequence of making matters worse, not better.
@Seth: I don’t want to start a big debate or anything, but I do think there’s a place for defense, when destruction of person or property is imminent (e.g. someone has a lit Molotov they’re about to throw at your house).
I just don’t think this situation comes close to meeting those standards.
@gold star: Better proofing would be good, but I don’t think a typo/bad spellcheck fix warrants demeaning Mike’s intelligence — let alone his trustworthiness.
Yes, the debate over “clear and present danger” is a worthy one. But like you said, this doesn’t even fall under that category.
I guess some men are capable of “properly” monitoring a controlled burn while others are not. So, if they had a permit, they would have allowed the burn? Kinda takes the wind out of their sails regarding an imminent danger doesn’t it? If this fire were an imminent danger, then why did it take so long to respond with a truck…didn’t they think the fire would have spread by then? Why didn’t Merle put the fire out himself if this were an imminent danger? And to think that all this danger would have been alleviated by the existence of an “official” (flammable, ha!) piece of paper.
I’ve been a professional proofreader and copy-editor for seventeen years. Here’s how it would play out in the big leagues:
gold star on Tue, 1st Jun 2010 3:20 pm:
A great [improper usage of "great"] sign of Mike Barskey[insert apostrophe here]s level of intelligence: n[capitalize]otice the scrolling text in the video at 5:30 that states, quote [unnecessary--redundant]; [Use colon here, not sem.] “so are freedom is violated?”.[Delete period here--question mark will serve] [Insert open-quote]Are[Italicize for emphasis] freedom[Insert close-quote]? Grammar on par with an 8 year old[hyphenate]? Please don’t trust this man. [Note: as grammatical usage is not directly concomitant with trustworthiness, statement makes no sense. Consider changing?]
Great job Sam A. Robrin, that was an exemplary demonstration of how to counter a grammar/spelling nazi.
Humans and their use of language is not robotic. Please excersice imagination when you read or listen to someone.
@Sam A Robrin: Thanks for defending my grammar mistake so well! I’m embarrassed for my mistake (because I know better), but I’d be *very* embarrassed if I were Gold Star.
@Paul: I agree. A grammar mistake does not denote intelligence. Thanks for pointing this out.
@Gold Star: As a grammar mistake does not denote lack of intelligence, neither does it mean untrustworthiness. I regret making that mistake (I know the difference between “our” and “are” but was in a hurry to edit and post this video and did not proof my work at all), but it has nothing to do with the main point of the video, the issue of liberty.
it’s obvious *you* are very embarrassed…and rightfully so.
While on the subject-’Hey bil,ever heard of voluntary zoning?’ Yes,I have,but put that way can be taken as an insult,implying this is common knowledge to all but me.Unless the insult was intended,then it is OK. Yes,I actually have heard of it.However,it requires that all members have the same resources to cover any damage,and will carry through.The problems are evident to anyone that has lived on a shared private road,or used a shared privete water system.All members equally share both use and costs.A tears up the road,making ruts,and doesn’t pay his share of plowing or maintenance.That leaves it to B<C<D<and E to fix the road and pay more.What recourse do they have if he continues this behavior?
X has a bonfire that gets out of control because of sudden wind change.Not only his house,but those of Y and Z burn down.X may have all the good intentions,but with his house gone,how does he make it good with his neighbors?How does he replace any irreplacable items they have lost?It is fine to let anyone do anything as long as they pay in the end,but what if they can't/won't? BTW,I am not just throwing roadblock questions,I would like to have actual answers to these.I would like to know how this would work in the real world.The theory is fine,but having lived on such a road,I know there are plenty of folks that are perfectly happy to use the work of otherts at no cost or effort to themselves,how would you solve the problem.Theory is nice,but the reality is the world is full of self-centered jerks that do not respond to reason or even longterm self interest,i.e. continue in this manner and soon there will be no road.Any ideas ? Thanks.Please correct for grammer,the finals test is coming up soon! 
—bil
Mike, excellent video. The epitome of government absurdity.
gold star, your denial is beneath you and thanks to use of hallucinogenic drugs, I see through you. It is obvious you do not know what *intelligence* is.
@gold star
For someone that criticizes other people about grammar *you* should know to use capitalization and know not to use ‘…’ before and.
I wouldn’t be embarrassed by that, unless I was a grammar nazi and told other people not to trust anyone that doesn’t use proper grammar.
Do you still trust yourself?
What would you rate your level of intelligence at, after reading your last post?
You’re human just like Barskey. Can you forgive him for his grammar mistakes after making them yourself? =P
i honestly don’t think i could ever forgive a thirty something year old who has difficulty spelling “our”…
Mike is a human being…… and no human being has absolutely perfect grammar.
If you disagree with what he is saying why don’t you just say so…. and leave the silly snipes out?
…put some N-1, 3 dexahechloropolyacynocryliacric heptane, with a bit of magnesium shavings, in a wad of old T-shirts. When they spray the foam, it will cause a, well, *KABOOM*!!!…lots of smoke&noise&flash, but no real damage…THAT’LL TEACH YOUR ARROGANT, SOCIALIST ASS, Merle…..
…OOOPS!…fergot. JK, dude, JK!….roflmfao!….
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