Middle School Parent Writes with Questions

June 7, 2010 by Sam Dodson
Filed under: Introduction, Outreach

“Curious” wrote with the following questions from the Sentinel Middle School Outreach Story:

Now that the Free Keene set, has taken it apon themeselves to do the neighborly thing and creepily now approach our children, I have a few imortant questions Id like to pose at Sam and Ian specificlly. Please answer them directly, no hyperbole or philisophical preamble please. I think everyone reading deserves some straight talk.

Thanks for reaching out “Curious”, sharing ideas is the core of my activism. I along with most others are happy to engage in rational discussion exploring our perspective. Feel feel free to talk with us or ask us questions at these events. We’re friendly and interested in exchanging ideas.

1. are you advocating 12 and 13 year olds drop out of school and self educate?

I’m encouraging the community to engage in a critical thinking exercise by taking an honest look at the way various aspects of society function today. I’m asking them to consider how the same issues could be addressed without resorting to the threat of violence or actual violence in order to solve the problem.

On the specifics for evolving the current education paradigm, I’m no expert, and that’s the reason we are holding the School Sucks Project signs. Listen to Brett, a former middle school teacher, who studied the history of the government’s education system, and you may be surprised at what you learn. The earlier link has a great audio introduction to his podcast. This is what we are inviting your kids to learn and consider, please listen for yourself as well. You could even sit down with your kids and listen to it together, and then have a rational discussion, that might teach you a lot about your kids.

2, If freedom of life choices and self ownership is the foundation of your ideology when does a person start to make these choices for themeselve?

Doesn’t a baby make choices continually? What changes over time is the amount of thought, experience, perspective, and understanding we posses as individuals. I believe life is about growing our perspective enabling each of us to make increasingly complex and self directing choices.

3. What do you believe the age of sexual consent should be legaly?(Ian please)

I’m a Voluntaryist, which means that I believe all interactions should be voluntary and consensual in nature. In that case there wouldn’t be a “legal” age. There would be acceptable standards that vary between communities, which would ostracize people who stray outside those standards to varying degrees based on the situation.

(Ian can edit this to add his answer as well)

4. Are you video taping these children and putting it on the web as is per your custom with most of your other actions?

We are in a public place, the camera is clearly visible, and yes the kids may be recorded in the videos. If you have a strong objection to having your kids filmed, this is what’s called the tragedy of the commons. You may want to use public property exclusively for your kids to leave the school and go home, which would prevent me from filming. If it were privately owned, one or likely both of us would be able to get what we want. Unfortunately in the government paradigm, I have just as much right to be there as you do.

A private school in the true free market I advocate, might offer the ability to pickup your kids out of sight. Then you could shield your children from the world and control all of the ideas that enter the experience of life you allow them. Although fortunately, I think most educational organizations would learn to inspire curiosity and courage in students empowering them to build a more encompassing world view within each individual.

5. Do you consider it “harming” some one if you approach their child without thier consent to influnce them counter to how their family values are structured?
Thanks. “

We share ideas through discussion which doesn’t involve physical contact, so by “harming” I can only assume that you mean sharing ideas that differ from your own with your children? Offering someone the opportunity to grow as a person is not what I would consider harm. What about books in the library that present these same ideas? Would you prevent your child from learning about this? Perhaps these bad books should be rounded up and burned at large public demonstrations?

Take a look at the spelling and grammar of your questions, is this the education system that worked so well for you? I struggle with spelling, grammar, and pronunciation of new words as well, and I was an A and B student in a “Blue Ribbon” School. Thanks for the questions Curious, it helped me solidify my thoughts on some of these issues.

Comments

7 Comments on Middle School Parent Writes with Questions

Paul on Mon, 7th Jun 2010 2:16 pm

I don’t know — while solid, I think some of these answers could be worded in a more conciliatory manner.

I like the answer to #1. I’d consider adding a point about the decreasing quality of education in the US over the years, as evidenced by world ranking, and the extremely high cost of public school relative to private alternatives.

Regarding #2, I think what you say is true, but perhaps misses the point of her question. Obviously babies cannot decide whether to have their diaper changed, for example. Even though they’re crying, you do it anyway. If a toddler wanders out your front door onto the street, you rescue him back … not decide he has made an informed decision to become independent.

There are ages at which kids are not capable of making certain kinds of decisions.

Regarding #3 … I think molestation of a kid before they are capable of consent constitutes force, and warrants a stronger response than just ostracism. I’m concerned about the reaction this woman may have to that response …. I wonder if you might add a caveat that this is your opinion, and others in the liberty movement may disagree.

Actually, it might be better to add that at the beginning, so it’s clear you’re not speaking for everyone — you know how people have a tendency to ascribe beliefs of one individual to others they associate with.

Regarding #4, I think offering to take their kid out of videos, if they request it, would be considerate. You know … blurry face effect or something.

Regarding #5, I know you use self deprecation here to make the point about government education, but I think it may be taken as insulting nonetheless.

Personally, my response to this question would be a bit more nuanced. Parents’ wishes are an important consideration when talking to kids. I think the criticality of the issue must be considered, as well as the age of the kid. In this case, the core issue at hand is really that the kids are being taught theft and extortion are ok. That’s a very serious issue, which affects others. Also, you might say that middle schoolers are of an age where they can hear a different perspective, think about it, discuss it with their parents, and reach a conclusion.

This goes back to question #2 — at what point are kids capable of handling these ideas for themselves.

Anyway, these are just my opinions/ideas … I wasn’t the one who was asked, and it’s your letter, so take any of them you consider useful.

Bradley Jardis on Mon, 7th Jun 2010 2:28 pm

Curious:

Thank you for being willing to engage in discussion about this. As Sam indicated, exchanging ideas and thoughts is very important!

I personally disagreed with a great deal of what Free Keene stood for at the beginning of my coming to understand what being opposed to public education and the coercive state was all about. I was after a government police officer for eleven years.

Once I comprehended precisely the truth about what Sam and Ian speak of… as a person who considers himself to be very moral I had no possible way I could keep my job.

I understand it is hard to understand at first… but please give what Free Keene has to offer a good long reflection. I truly believe that children would be much better off if they were educated in a way that taught them alternatives to advocating the use of force to solve problems.

Again– thank you for taking the time to ask Sam and Ian questions.

Chase Banks on Mon, 7th Jun 2010 2:58 pm

I see a common thread in each of the questions. Curious appears to feel that young people can’t be trusted to act rationally in their own best interest, in the absence of an authority regulating their personal decisions. This is a very fearful and pessimistic view of youth.

Perhaps Curious is inadvertently projecting (his) own insecurities onto the little folk.

Puke on Mon, 7th Jun 2010 3:27 pm

Based on those questions does this parent think Coke and McDonald’s is “harming” his/her child through advertising?

Is the guy outside Price Chopper in a lobster costume “harming” the children of parents who don’t eat shellfish?

Children (and all people) are confronted with differing ideas and messages all day. You don’t want your kid being introduced to new ideas by a guy standing on the side-walk holding a sign then gouge out your child’s eyes or lock them in the closet. Because otherwise it’s going to happen somehow by someone or some company.

If you are a good enough parent you’ll know that you’ve properly taught your own children the values you hold dear. Or you’re a good enough parent to respect the choices your kids make.

Otherwise you as the parent suck.

Luthor on Mon, 7th Jun 2010 6:03 pm

I discovered the ideas of Liberty on my own. Really my whole life had lead me to these conclusions, and people like Ian and Sam (though certainly not limited to the pair) helped me to focus my beliefs.

My new found principles ran contrary to my Father’s beliefs, and instead of being understanding that I am a free individual, with decision making capabilities of my own, he chose to belittle me. Now we have a poor relationship due to his close mindedness.

“Curious”, if you really love your child(ren), as I believe you do, the best advice I can give is to continue to love them with understanding and compassion, even if they find alternative beliefs.

Sam Dodson on Mon, 7th Jun 2010 6:28 pm

Well said Luthor. My parents encouraged me to explore the things that I enjoy. I had all kinds of hobbies growing up, I was a tinker, I took everything apart to see how it worked and then put it back together. Mom would bring people into my life that would assist me along the way.

Having that support and the freedom to explore my passions, and to choose reason over doctrine made a big difference in my life.