Sentinel Columist Declares: “Free Keeners aren’t making friends”

August 11, 2010 by Ian
Filed under: Update

Keene Sentinel columnist Steve Gilbert has written a piece appearing in today’s paper:

So what do you make of Free Keene? Any idea what it wants?

The local group — it may or may not be an arm of the N.H. Free State Project — gleefully moved into City Council chambers last week with its so-called “Keene City Hall drinking game.”

In it, several members of Free Keene wanted to give the appearance of drinking bottled beer during the City Council meeting, though “not a beer” was printed on the labels.

As expected, the mayor, city councilors and police were unable to ignore what most of us would consider a spectacle of disrespect and took action.

Two people at the meeting were arrested on charges of disorderly conduct, a commonplace result of the group’s actions over the last year or so.

Like a recurring dance, Free Keene’s members routinely challenge — you could even say taunt — local police to arrest them as they straddle the line of the law.

Sometimes police move in and make arrests; many times they don’t.

Their actions haven’t directly endangered the public, but they do potentially tie up police if more serious situations are developing across the city. And that has happened.

Free Keene members want to wring publicity out of their actions, from stories in the press to videos they shoot themselves and post on their website, freekeene.com. No doubt they’d love to catch the police in a moment of anger, trip them up, so to speak, and capture it on camera.

It’s pretty obvious the police, in turn, are using restraint. It’s like a strange cat-and-mouse cartoon, with the mouse trying to tempt the cat into something foolhardy.

Free Keene members also appear regularly on Cheshire TV, host a syndicated radio talk show on WKBK and are regular callers on talk shows hosted by others.

Hard to say how many people are Free Keene members, but the same dozen or so are consistently seen and heard in a city of more than 22,000.

At the Pumpkin Festival last October, when the daily “4:20” pot smoking protests were percolating in Central Square, hundreds of festival-goers watched police arrest four people accused of smoking marijuana in front of city hall.

In the interim, we’ve witnessed several demonstrations of disobedience, including the recent baring of breasts in Central Square.

Thursday’s “drinking game” seems to have ratcheted things up a bit. The story was picked up by the Associated Press and went national — I read it on the websites of the Houston Chronicle and Toronto Sun. It’s a great way for Free Keene to attract recruits from around the country.

Free Keene’s own detailed website is updated constantly and the “drinking game” right now is a huge feature, complete with video. And since the first one was such a success, well, you know what’s coming.

“Plans are in the works for the next City Council drinking game, Aug. 19th, 7 p.m. Mark your calendar, it’s going to be a special event,” was posted this morning.

So what do you think of Free Keene?

In talking with many people in breakfast nooks over the weekend, ball games during the week and downtown at lunchtime, it seems the group doesn’t have much public support.

Interestingly, “petulant” is used quite a bit. Many say they are perturbed that group members are trying to embarrass Keene. And there is anger that Central Square is often used as the group’s staging area.

When you see online reader comments in out-of-town newspapers, it’s apparent quite a few people think Keene is bubbling over with “loonies.”

Free Keene uses the phrase “peaceful evolution,” in describing its goals. Liberty, individual rights and less government are all blanket catchphrases under that philosophy.

As for the Free State Project, an initiative to attract 20,000 pro-liberty activists to New Hampshire, it seems considerably tamer than Free Keene. It claims its primary goal is to get like-minded people to move here, but emphasizes not through civil disobedience.

You can see the philosophical similarities and differences through their websites.

Both even double as quasi chambers of commerce, as they try to attract new members. The Free State Project touts 101 reasons to move to New Hampshire and Free Keene touts 130-plus reasons to move to Keene. Dozens of them highlight the best our regions have to offer, outside of government and politics.

Free Keene even has these nuggets on its website: “Keene cops not as nasty as bigger cities like Manchester.”

And, “Keene bureaucrats tend to not be as unfriendly as bureaucrats in other cities.”

But here’s the kicker, and the absolute truth:

“Establishment confused, angry, and unsure of what to do about liberty activism in Keene. … It must be frustrating to be a bureaucrat or politician in Keene.”

Seth Cohn

A quite accurate description of the situation.

I'm very glad he can see and describe the differences between the FSP and Free Keene. Far too many reporters confuse the two.
open_kontainer

Oh noes, harmless libertarian protests are tying up the cops and causing them to neglect the serious things they'd otherwise be doing, like collecting taxes, raising revenue, handing out parking tickets, and administering tasings across the city. What a shame.
BJ in KY

Like a recurring dance, Free Keene’s members routinely challenge — you could even say taunt — local police to arrest them as they straddle the line of the law.

I taunt you with a brown bottle

You taunt me with a command

I taunt you with a question

You taunt me with a command

I taunt you with a question

You taunt me with a threat

I taunt you with a question

You taunt me with handcuffs

I taunt your handcuffs

You taunt me with a cage

I taunt your cage

You throw me in the cage

I taunt you with forgiveness and peace
Paul

unable to ignore what most of us would consider a spectacle of disrespect

Interesting that Steve identifies "disrespect" as the reason for the arrests — not any sort of actual disruption. I agree wholeheartedly.

I'd like to ask him to list for me, the kinds of organizations who use violence against those who don't show them "respect". I can think of at least three.

1. The Mafia.
2. Street Gangs.
3. Governments.
BJ in KY

Should I find it ironic that I submitted a comment on the article over 4 hours ago and it hasn't been posted?
KEENENATIVE

Paul on Wed, 11th Aug 2010 3:22 pm

unable to ignore what most of us would consider a spectacle of disrespect

Interesting that Steve identifies “disrespect” as the reason for the arrests — not any sort of actual disruption. I agree wholeheartedly.

I’d like to ask him to list for me, the kinds of organizations who use violence against those who don’t show them “respect”. I can think of at least three.

1. The Mafia.

2. Street Gangs.

3. Governments. <—OK, I agree. Steve Gilbert is an asswipe. Was it "disrespect"?. Maybe. "Disorderly Conduct"? Probably not. "Petulent"? HMMmmm…that seems to describe MayorPREGNANT better…("Disorderly Conduct" is the cops catch-all charge that means, "I don't know exactly which LAW you're in violation of, but around here, I'm the LAW, and I don't like what you're doing, even if it isn't exactly a crime, so that's the "crime" I'm arresting you for."…Got that?) So, remember: Mafia=Street Gangs=Governments=Street Gangs=Mafia. Got that? And, although the part about pretending to drink alcohol was carefully edited out of the video, the only real "disruption" exists only in the minds of the mayor & council…
KEENENATIVE

4 hours? Is that all? Did you sign it "BJ in KY"?….try "BJ in NH"…that should work…Knowing how screwed up the Sentinels' Editorial process is, they are probably having an actual fist-fight over whether to post your comment at all…The paper didn't hit the streets until noon today, so…
http://www.dooms-day-device.com Puke

"Like a recurring dance, Free Keene’s members routinely challenge — you could even say taunt — local police to arrest them as they straddle the line of the law."

—————————————-

I would say that we routinely participate in consensual and peaceful activities that the police claim they must stop b/c politicians said so.

The police and the politicians could choose to leave people alone who aren't harming others. They could choose to let people be free.

Instead the gov't uses violence and coercion to force people to think and act the way the politicians demand.

Stop taking our money, stop taking our freedom and we'll stop "taunting" you.
Paul

Yeah really. They steal over 40% of my income each year and hand it to themselves and their corrupt buddies, force me to pay them rent on my own property, force me to kiss their behinds and give them more cash before I can build an addition on my own house, start my own business, etc, bury me under a million stupid victimless crimes and codes, which they enforce on me using my own money, run monopoly rackets on too many industries to count … and for me to stand up to them in any way means I'm "taunting" them? Hillarious.
http://enemyartistkristofer.blogspot.com kristofeR

The article sounds like a backhanded compliment to me – he tried to make it sound as if the free keene website and its members were bad, but if I didn't already know better, it would've made me say, "hey, that sounds like the place to be".
http://www.nolanchart.com/author677.html Chaz Munro

Anyone who steals that much of my funds and thinks of me as only a cow that they can milk for my labor and compliance, does not and never will earn even the least bit of my respect for them. In fact they should get on their knees and thank whatever god of control that they pray to, that myself and all the others in the liberty movement are peaceful beings. We will *always* respond to their foul deprivations against our liberties with peace, forgiveness and love towards them.

It seems that we don't get credit for that either, and I think it's time that we did. Our people work and pay into that system yet we are slanderously labeled as "bums", simply because some folks show up at 4:20 in the afternoon on the square.

Now their latest sneaky ploy is to turn the people of Keene against the activists, deceptively promoting violence in a most vile and covert fashion, against the peaceful disobedient people in the movement.

I suppose that it is now time for local Keeniacs to both get credit for the many volunteer works they do and some well needed good P.R. lest these slobbering goons rally together and attack some of our folks, striking out at them from both ignorance and needless fear of what we represent.

Last year I was followed around for nearly an hour by some really big dude who was very eager to challenge me to a fight. The guy stalked me all the way to Jake's over on Roxbury St. waiting until I left the store. Why? Because someone at a 4:20 rally "disrespected *his* flag that he fought for". On another day the same guy followed me and a friend on Main St. up to the middle school, and actually made physical contact with him, removing a mask he was wearing.

Make no mistake about it, some of these people want to hurt us and a lot of our activists are rightfully armed. Sadly though, some folks out there think that they are just too stupid and mean for bullets to harm them. I very much want to return to New Hampshire soon and I know that I will. I love freedom so much that I am willing to (once I have the money to move) live the remainder of my life there in peace with my fellow human beings. Of course the key word is "peace".

I wholeheartedly believe that a little investment in good public relations will reap benefits into infinity.
GiveMeLiberty

"unable to ignore what most of us would consider a spectacle of disrespect "

Hmmm how do you show disrespect to a most likely corrupt politicians LMAO.How much does the selectman or men or whatever in keene make a year?I know how much the selectman in my town makes.I live in a small town,population under 7000 residents and for some reason the one selectman in town here makes the ungodly salary of over 200,000 dollars a year.Pardon the language but that is BULLSHIT.
trippwhyre

I'm curious to know if the tremendous increase in CD in Keene has led the city to hire more police or not.
Bradley Jardis

A quite accurate description of the situation.

I’m very glad he can see and describe the differences between the FSP and Free Keene. Far too many reporters confuse the two.

Heaven forbid that people confuse people like you who think institutionalized violence is okay… and people like us who disagree.
Andrew Sawyer

So what do you make of Free Keene? Any idea what it wants?

I wonder if Steve asked Free Keene what "IT" wants…

I think it wants worldwide domination!
(NO)Name(required))

…what Free Keene wants???…So, now, Free Keene WANTS something???…How does a website WANT???…I bet Steve Gilbert hasn't thought of THAT, yet…&, I bet Cynthia Georgina won't write a letter to the Council about the stupid "open container" ordinances, either!…Gee, does the fact that I have posted these words here, make ME a MEMBER of "FREE KEENE?!?!?!?!OMG!…………….where do I unjoin?…YOU GUYS BETTER REFUND MY MEMBERSHIP DUES!…
http://xrindustries.com xrazorwirex

"They steal over 40% of my income each year and hand it to themselves and their corrupt buddies, force me to pay them rent on my own property, force me to kiss their behinds and give them more cash before I can build an addition on my own house, start my own business, etc, bury me under a million stupid victimless crimes and codes, which they enforce on me using my own money, run monopoly rackets on too many industries to count … and for me to stand up to them in any way means I’m “taunting” them? Hilarious."

"Our people work and pay into that system yet we are slanderous labeled as “bums”, simply because some folks show up at 4:20 in the afternoon on the square.

Now their latest sneaky ploy is to turn the people of Keene against the activists, deceptively promoting violence in a most vile and covert fashion, against the peaceful disobedient people in the movement."

WHY THE HELL CAN'T MORE PEOPLE SYMPATHIZE WITH THIS!?!?!?

Seriously, it's not like this (politics) is just some nuisance, it's fucking atrocious and disgusting. How brainwashed can you get?!?
M_Freeman

This editorial (propoganda) in the local paper sounds like one of the best recruitment pitches to move to Keene I have heard so far. I hope thousands of Liberty minded folks that subscribe to the non aggression principle move to Keene, soon. I realize voting doesn't work and the system has turned into a mob of theiving thugs, but it would be nice to see the entire City Council replaced with Free Staters in a few years. Any way to get Free Staters into the judiciary there?
Brill Blackburn

xrazorwirex,

In my opinion, more people don't yet sympathize because they've been very deeply conditioned to believe that those in government are "our protectors" and that police are "the good guys". When the public sees people being arrested on the evening news, they assume that those people are crooks or vandals who must've done something to deserve it. In large part, that's been true, because many televised arrests are over real crimes … and even when a "crime" is victimless, as when Michael Phelps was accused of trying marijuana, Phelps came out and apologized, admitting he was "wrong". That only reinforced the conditioning.

So when the public sees liberty activists being arrested, the same programming kicks in. The news articles on the City Council Drinking Game (incorrectly) stated that the meeting was disrupted by the activists, because the default assumption was that it must've been the activists who caused it. People are accustomed to seeing criminals handled by the courts and police; they are NOT accustomed to seeing liberty activists protesting unjust laws by using the court system. It'll take time for people to change their thinking, to start wondering, gee, maybe these liberty activists are the "good guys" and maybe the government and police "not so good".

My own path to liberty took years. I can't imagine it'll be much different for many in the public. But everyone's path to liberty needs to start sometime, and I'd say the people of Keene are already taking their first step.
((NO) Name (required

Steve Gilbert? What's he know about local folks perceptions of "free-keene"??? Well, in his piece, he mentions recent conversations at local "breakfast nooks, ball games, & lunch spots"(supposedly "downtown businesses"…) as being his "sources" of "local public opinion". Fine. That is pretty much the Sentinels' reader base. Let's look a a couple facts. SG states keene is 22,000 population. Gee, an amazingly stable population. How to explain all the new faces? "Brain-drain"? "White flight"? Hmmm…Above, our good friend Chaz Munro states, STATES, that he was "followed around for an hour by a big guy who wanted to fight". Yup. Know the guy. Lounges around in nuttin' but his shorts on the bench downtown, right? He's a well-known (to the cops at least!) local nut-job. Wacko. Seriously violent psycho. Appears unable to engage in ANY kind of conversation w/ANYBODY. So what? Any place has such wing-nuts. Sentinel/City Council don't care about him. For the best of the PETULENT Steve Gilbert's whine-n-cheese hit-piece, read the last paragraph. Carefully. Re-read it. THAT'S THE WHOLE OF THE TRUTH! Mayor PREGNANT & the city council are CLUELESS FUCKING IDIOTS ON THE MOST DANGEROUS DRUG OF ALL : temporary political power. temporary political power. God, I love you FREE KEENE! FREE KEENE! FREE KEENE! (Um, after you guys free keene, can you maybe think about helping free some of keene's slaves???…some of us, SOME of us, actually like you guys! (Um, er, that "guys" being gender-neutral, doncha' know?
((NO) Name (required

To M_Freeman, above, RE: "getting free anything into the judiciary here": Yes, 2 chances. Slim. And none. The current 2 judgelets(not to be confused w/"juggalos"…)are Howard B. Lane, jr.,("special justice", whatever the hell that phrase actually means…), and & Edward J. Burke("presiding justice"…) Lane got his benchseat, LITERALLY, as an inherited pay-off. Few in the local area have any real, private respect for him. He certainly knows PERSONALLY, what (little) I think of him. Burke was en-benched by Govnuh Lynch-mob, as political payoff for Burkes' helping set up the BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL "mental health court", so the 501(c)3 Burke sat on the board of, "Monad. Fam.Servixes", could set up another funding scam on FEDERAL TAX $$$$. I'd be less upset by that, if real people weren't being hurt deliberately, forced – by court order, COURT ORDER, to take brain-damaging drugs which do not help. Well, they help Pharma. All part of the local / NH CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. The State of NH really is as broke, broken, crooked, incompetent & corrupt as it seems. At least. Hope that helps answer your question. Good lawyers, appeals to NH Superior/Supreme Courts, & Federal appeals would do better, I'd say. Good Q?, tho…
Charles

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

-Ghandi

I commend all of you. I wish I could join you in Keene. The job market is tough though.
Tim

Uh, guys and gals, this isn't an article. It's a column. Articles are who, what, where, when or why. Columns are opinion pieces.
open_kontainer

Why does a little city of 22,000 need forty-four cops? To keep order and handle rare instances of serious, victim-having crimes, what would the correct number be? 7? 14? I say bring back the old cop system, where everything wasn't a big deal resulting in an arrest and charge. For an out of control drunk the cops could apply a little instant, on-scene baton justice and send him on his way. Reserve the courts for the big stuff, and only have court twice a year, using volunteer magistrates. That's what I want. Who do I vote for to restore that system?
Heika Courser

Here is the sentinel's newest story…Although I thought the in the square were very good; I didn't see any defacing going on:)

messa ghttp://www.sentinelsource.com/articles/2010/08/12/news/local/free/id_409420.txtes
Shepherd

Yes, I don't understand how chalk which is easily removed could be considered defacing 'public' property.
Bradley Jardis

I don't think chalking public property is a good idea… I also don't think it is illegal.
KEENENATIVE

…i heard KPD has 27 8X10 color glossy pictures w/circles & arrows on the back, explaining what each one is…the taxes>theft is way cool…
Paul

Yeah, I think the chalking is a bad idea — it's inconsiderate of the person who has to clean it up, for one.
KEENENATIVE

#

Paul on Thu, 12th Aug 2010 3:58 pm

Yeah, I think the chalking is a bad idea — it’s inconsiderate of the person who has to clean it up, for one.<—THERE YOU GO, AGAIN, ASSWIPE! Nobody "has to clean it up" Where in the hell did you ever get the idea that somebody has to clean it up??? Obviously, you don't know shit about shinola, Paul. (As some of you might have guessed, I am really only mildly annoyed by this bullshit…&Not getting my hopes up, but it does give me some humor to imagine you all getting so upset over such trivialities…Isn't ANYBODY gonna comment on how neat & "professional" the chalking was???…That wasn't just a bunch of kids scribbling…Some real time, effort, thoght, care, & consideration went into the ARTWORK. The CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED ARTWORK…OK, the Sentinel is a bunch of liberal / fascist douchebags, but you'd think the freekeenieweeies would at least respect people's right to their constitutional protections..and the FREE EXERCISE THEREOF…Hey, what foreign state did we import you from, Paul???…Did you leave that state all cleaned up???…
http://nhunderground.com Russell Kanning

keep up the good work guys

drinkin' from brown bottles marked "not beer" seems to have them quakin in their boots
Slim P

Since you asked. Some of you should keep your shirts on. Some of you feel free to take them off. If you want to smoke pot, go ahead and light up. In your own home though, I no longer have the need to breathe that kind of air, and your freedom ends at my nose. Ditto with your chalk "art", light up your own driveway to your hearts content and if I don't like it I won't look.

Feel free to point and laugh at me, because I'm surely doing likewise. There's nothing new in anything you say or do, but you're children, you don't believe this simple truth, so I'll try not to point this out too often. You'll figure that out eventually.
Bradley Jardis

Since you asked. Some of you should keep your shirts on. Some of you feel free to take them off. If you want to smoke pot, go ahead and light up. In your own home though, I no longer have the need to breathe that are and your freedom ends at my nose.

I completely agree with you sir/mam. The issue here is that where the activists are doing these things is on what is "public" property… so it kind of IS their home. If everyone owns it everyone should have a right to do with it as they please.

The simple solution to me here is to eliminate "public property." There is no question what type of conduct is allowed on private property… as the conduct is specifically dictated by the property owner.

Private property is also not funded by theft

Feel free to point and laugh at me, because I’m surely doing likewise.

To the contrary, I value your input and willingness to participate here. I just hope that through these types of commentaries I will be able to convince/show you what people like the owner of this blog have shown me. The simple thing being advocated here on Free Keene is the "non-aggression principle."

That's all there is to it.

Thanks again for commenting here… please keep doing so
native new hampshiri

all i'm saying is if you're coming to my state or my town to waste our money and waste the police force's time, you would do well to pack up and gtfo. new hampshire is already strapped for cash due to its relatively tax-free lifestyle and a lousy national economic climate.

you could be civilly disobedient in your respective home states, but instead you move here and stick your collective noses into our business? the nh state motto is Live Free Or Die, but a close runner-up was Leave Us The Hell Alone, with an honorable mention for No Flatlanders.

if you want to move to keene or new hampshire, please be respectful of the establishments already in place here. where i live, it's considered bad manners to cockslap recent acquaintances with your politics. get a hobby, read a book; just leave the rest of us alone. forcing your ideals on others is NOT liberty.
Paul

all i’m saying is if you’re coming to my state or my town to waste our money and waste the police force’s time, you would do well to pack up and gtfo.

It's the police, and the politiicans who are choosing to waste the money and time.

new hampshire is already strapped for cash due to its relatively tax-free lifestyle and a lousy national economic climate.

Then I suggest they stop wasting our money enforcing B.S. victimless laws and regulations, and focus on stopping real criminals.

you could be civilly disobedient in your respective home states, but instead you move here and stick your collective noses into our business?

It's time to take a stand against the growing abusiveness, corruption, intrusiveness, and size of government.

Many other states are just about beyond hope, so it makes sense to concentrate efforts in one area.

the nh state motto is Live Free Or Die, but a close runner-up was Leave Us The Hell Alone, with an honorable mention for No Flatlanders.

I very much wish the government would leave me the hell alone. Unfortunately, the extort just about half of my labor from me, and use it to blow innocent people up, hand billions to their corrupt buddies in banking, industry, and government bureaucracy, and try to run everyone's lives and property.

I'm also a native new hampshirite also by the way, and I have no problem with flatlanders if they're going to stand up to government abuse.

if you want to move to keene or new hampshire, please be respectful of the establishments already in place here

Why should anyone respect an organization, which, instead of actually competing in the marketplace, extorts money from their "customers" on threat of stealing their homes?

where i live, it’s considered bad manners to cockslap recent acquaintances with your politics get a hobby, read a book; just leave the rest of us alone. forcing your ideals on others is NOT liberty.

I'd be happy to leave others alone. Will you leave me alone, or will you continue to force me to fund incompetent, wasteful, and corrupt institutions, as well as the imprisonment of innocent people?

I don't agree with every event or tactic every "Free keener" has chosen, that's for sure — but it's right to take a stand against abuse.
http://freetalklive.com/ Ian Freeman

I agree – you should be left alone. Unfortunately the government people won't leave peaceful people be, so until they do, activists will continue to come here. All most activists want is to be left alone, from what I understand. Lots of natives also don't much like the government's aggressions – do you?
native new hampshiri

i can more easily tolerate the impositions of a lawfully-elected government than those of strangers come here to tell me how to live. as another poster said, you can do everything you like in the privacy of your own home. i honestly don't care if you're smoking crack in there. i do care if you're driving drunk and endangering others, and i do care if you refuse to furnish a police officer with your identity, and i do care if you're pretending to drink beer in a town hall just to annoy everyone. good job. you're officially annoying.

there are a lot of libertarians in new hampshire, but not all of them are conservative, and very few of them conflate liberty with anarchy. if a space is public space, it belongs to everyone, including those of us who don't want to see you acting like jackasses.

you think it's the police's fault for arresting people who break the laws? no, that's their job, and i appreciate what they do. i know if i make a domestic disturbance call to the police, they'll be at my house in under two minutes, and i think that's valuable work.

you'll find new hampshire resistant to change, more resistant than any state that surrounds it. if you comport yourselves like a disease or some foreign body in our midst, we'll react unfavorably.
Paul

i can more easily tolerate the impositions of a lawfully-elected government than those of strangers come here to tell me how to live.

How are these "strangers" telling you how to live?

Or are they just telling you to stop stealing from others? Telling you to stop arresting people for victimless crimes? In other words — telling you to stop telling others how to live?

as another poster said, you can do everything you like in the privacy of your own home. i honestly don’t care if you’re smoking crack in there

Unfortunately the police and the politicians do. Over a million people are thrown in jail each year for victimless drug crimes, and decent people should take a stand against this evil.

And, how about keep my own money? Can I do that in the privacy of my own home? How about start a business, and trade with my neighbor? How about build an addition on my own property?

i do care if you’re driving drunk and endangering others

Yes, I agree that if a person is driving recklessly, they should be stopped.

and i do care if you refuse to furnish a police officer with your identity

Why? What right do they have to demand people's identity? What would happen if I walked up to random people on the street and started demanding their identity?

and i do care if you’re pretending to drink beer in a town hall just to annoy everyone. good job. you’re officially annoying.

It wouldn't be activism that I'd choose to participate in, but I guess I just don't understand the strong objection. Why was that so annoying? I mean, it seems harmless to me.

there are a lot of libertarians in new hampshire, but not all of them are conservative

What do you mean? I didn't realize there was a conservative/liberal divide when it came to being pro-freedom.

very few of them conflate liberty with anarchy

I don't consider myself an anarchist either. I believe in enforcing rules against harming persons or property. I believe in rules defending property rights.

But I don't think one institution should be excepted from basic moral and legal standards. If anyone else were to do many of the things government employees do, they'd be immediately arrested and thrown in jail.

Do you think we should have an institution which is allowed to extort, steal, and kidnap with impunity?

if a space is public space, it belongs to everyone, including those of us who don’t want to see you acting like jackasses.

I certainly don't approve of every behavior people have participated in, in "public" space. If you're going to force people to fund the public space, though, those people are going to have a right to use it. I suggest it be funded by community organizations, through voluntary contributions. Then, those organizations will have the right to set rules for its use.

you think it’s the police’s fault for arresting people who break the laws? no, that’s their job,

That's called the Nuremberg defense. The fact that someone gets a paycheck for what they do doesn't absolve them of moral responsibility for their actions.

i appreciate what they do. i know if i make a domestic disturbance call to the police, they’ll be at my house in under two minutes, and i think that’s valuable work.

Absolutely, protecting people, and stopping thieves, murderers, and the like, is a valuable service. But, I should be allowed to choose which agency will provide me with that service.

Providing food is a valuable service. But we don't shut down every restaurant but one, and then force people to buy a meal there at least once per week, on threat of their homes being stolen from them.

If we were to do so, we could pretty much count on prices going up and quality going down at that restaurant. There would be no choice, and so no accountability.

you’ll find new hampshire resistant to change, more resistant than any state that surrounds it.

I don't think that's true.

And most of the states that surround NH are full of folks who love big government.

if you comport yourselves like a disease or some foreign body in our midst, we’ll react unfavorably.

I agree that certain FK activists need to comport themselves better. Issues, Events, and Tactics should all be chosen with care. There are examples of great activism that has taken place, but there's also examples of poor, counterproductive behavior.

Unfortunately, it sometimes seems that the poor behavior gets the most attention.
http://freetalklive.com/ Ian Freeman

I'm annoying? Think about the annoyance that an arrest causes the family of someone with an open container or cannabis.

It's not the police's job to enforce the laws. Please read their own Mission Statement: http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/departments/police/miss…

Police get to use discretion, which means they can ignore bad laws, should they choose. They need to chose right, and leave peaceful people alone.
trippwhyre

The use of the term "flatlanders" by New Hampshirites and Vermonters is quite ugly. It makes you sound low-class.
bil

'Flatlanders' is used by the more woodchuck type of vermonter and New hampshirite.The more sophisticated ones prefer to use the term 'coneheads'. —bil