My Apology to James Callaway
James,
I apologize for invading your personal space yesterday outside city hall. I should have worked to deescalate the situation, and instead my actions contributed to exactly the opposite. I certainly could have responded differently, and I have learned from this experience. I apologize for my aggressive behavior towards you.
I do not feel I owe you a new cup, as it was a closed container that was put in my face, and I truly felt threatened. However, I would invite you to sit down and talk about the issues related to Free Keene and the Liberty Activism going on. If you want to do this on camera, I think this would make great footage, and would be happy to film this in front of your coffee shop. Of course your videographer would be welcome to set up as well. This would be great advertising to the people that agree with and support your viewpoint, and I’ll even buy the drinks.
I think this would go a long way to help you understand some of the changes that are happening in Keene and around the state. There is a tremendous amount of mis-information about the liberty activists, our views, and activism. I would like to explain what we are all about, and how the freedom message naturally works to bring people together.
So James if you would like to set that up on camera or off, please let me know with a private message to me in the forum. I’m glad you joined, and look forward to speaking with you about this.
Sam Dodson
Comments
189 Comments on My Apology to James Callaway
-Applauds-
Hope James accepts your invitation with or without the cameras.
Good for you.
Excellent. I love hearing people not afraid to admit they made a mistake. I have just (in the past two days) found your sites here and I am so excited about all I am reading! Kudos to you all for standing up and speaking the truth! I will keep reading and learning more and hopefully join in as soon as I can.
Good for you Sam.
Everyone loses his cool now and then. I’m glad you realized you made a mistake.
Apologies (and taking responsibility for one’s part in a bad situation) are so powerful.
One of the most important lessons anyone can learn in customer service is that the way to win a customer for life is to make a mistake…and to do your damndest to make things right.
Glad to see the apology Sam. I certainly understand your frustration and my opinion of you has not changed. I hope others will allow you to be human for a moment or two out of your public life. I hope James will see the wisdom in your offer and take you up on it. 
Shawn
Sorry Sammy. If you are saying you in any way felt threatened by my actions, you are lying. I was peaceful. Annoying and irritating, but peaceful and not threatening. Had you stopped your “apology” after the first paragraph, I would have gladly accepted it. But to put a condition on it, veiled as an invitations to some peace talk, that is not an apology. Just another tactic to use to try to get your point across. An apology ends after “I am sorry.”
I want my cup back. And I want to see you write “FREE KEENE FROM THE FREE STATERS” on it. That will be payment enough for the property damage you caused me.
Good job, Sam! Hope this all works out in the end.
Edit: Guess not
I do not believe a word of this. I have long suspected Sam was disingenuous in his whole “holier-than-thou” attitude he took with the police. We can now see what he would do if the shoe were on the other foot. I think only now have we seen his true colors. Apart from what all these handful of people say, this doesn’t sound like a “moment or two” of losing your cool or temper.
Honestly, if he had been in James’ position, dealing with a police officer and held a sign or something up to that officer’s face, the officer got that close to his face, and hit his hand, Sam would have been SCREAMING, hollering ‘assault’ and rallying the troops to his defense.
Sam, your refusal to acknowledge that makes me doubt this apology is sincere, or that you’re even capable of considering yourself wrong. You should probably see a professional counselor, in my opinion. You have issues with anger, social interactions, and narcissistic paranoid delusions.
Oh, and I heard you mention the “I’m not touching you game” on the radio. When I see children play it, it looks an AWFUL lot like what you did to James, getting within an inch of his face.
James,
You may want to read it again. He clearly apologized and then invited you to sit down and talk and offered to buy the drinks from your own establishment.
There was no “condition”.
Both of you were acting childish last night. Sam has apologized and offered an olive branch.
The ball is still in your court, James.
I have been following this site for about 2 months and I love the content and the intentions of the Free State Project.
Keep up the good work. I hope that non cooperation becomes something that spreads across the country, sooner than later.
I understand why Sam became upset and I support him. It may not be right to get upset but it happens. Everyone makes mistakes and it is good to see him acknowledge it.
I am amazed by the people on the other side of the arguement, which may in fact only be one person or just a few that are trying to instigate a reaction from the activists. I would choose to ignore them, their comments are the exact reason we need change.
You know you are over the target when you are getting the flack. What you guys are doing is working and there are lots of people out here that are watching and support you.
Keep your head up and don’t give up. It is always darkest before the dawn.
Sam, I apologize for my annoying and irritating actions last night.
“You should probably see a professional counselor, in my opinion. You have issues with anger, social interactions, and narcissistic paranoid delusions.”
People get angry sometimes. It’s normal.
Looks like a draw. A good place to let it rest. —bil
Kudos to James and Sam
I’m very impressed with both sides here. If I were Sam, I’d go ahead and write that cup up — but I think it’s very big of James to let that part go.
Sam,
You Hypocrite! I have been following the escapades of the Free State project for a while. I have long suspected that you, and those like you, were only in this to irritate people with unreasonable behavior. Your actions in this situation confirmed this for me.
I heard your account of what happened (on Dan’s show this morning). I just watched the video. Your account does not match what I just witnessed. What I saw in your video was a man standing in the way (being peacefully obnoxious and annoying), being assaulted by an angry aggressor. When this peacefully obnoxious individual attempted to show the aggressor his protest sign (in the form of a cup with writing on it), this angry aggressor (who had aggressively invaded this peaceful individual’s personal space) destroyed the peaceful man’s personal property.
Sounds strangely like what you claim to have experienced at the Middle School. Doesn’t feel quite as nice when the annoying shoe is on the other foot, does it sir?
Good job to Sam and James.
My esteem for both of you went up a notch. I’d echo the sentiment that I would write the cup…what a great gesture it would be.
Curious,
You’re right. I think this is why he apologized.
Problem solved. Sam, you turned me on to the teachings of Peace Pilgrim. Remember it took her 15 years to change her life and it was not easy. You were wrong, but you can right that wrong. I will gladly send you a new cup so that you can write the words that James desires on it as restitution. Don’t let us down, practice what you preach and set a good example from this ugly situation. WE ALL NEED TO EVOLVE OUR THINKING.
Write the cup! … Write the cup!! C’mon Sam
I hear about restitution as a peaceful way to right wrongs all the time on FTL and the like. Well, shouldn’t Sam promote that idea by showing how it’s done. Even though it was a cheap disposable cup, it wasn’t Sam’s and he had no right to destroy it. Shouldn’t Sam make James whole and then some to show how restitution would work in a free market? Or, is this going to be an example that statists are going to use to show why they believe in forcing people to do things?
Sam is making this look bad for everyone by not living up to the same beliefs and ideas that he’s trying to force on everyone else in Keene.
If the police forced Sam to replace the cup that he obviously damaged, there would be an uproar and he’d make a video about how it’s wrong for them to do that. Yet, when Sam has the option to do it on his own without being forced, he refuses to do it.
Suck it up and replace the cup.
If the police forced Sam to replace the cup that he obviously damaged, there would be an uproar and he’d make a video about how it’s wrong for them to do that.
Just to clarify, I don’t think anyone has a problem with police/courts obtaining far restitution for victims. That’s precisely what should be done, when one person harms another, or their property (if a mutually agreeable solution can’t be reached).
It’s the enforcement of victimless crimes, or collection of fines that go to the state, that people tend to object to.
But, I agree with your overall point, that replacing the cup is the right thing to do.
Sam & James,
Do only what you both agreed to in resolving your situation. It took a lot of courage to expose yourselves publicly on this forum. Disregard the pressure herein to do anything you haven’t already agreed to mutually and sincerely. Move forward anonymously and surprise us. Otherwise outside pressures may influence your actions inappropriately. You both have my highest regards. Way to go!
Sincerely,
Jim
Sam,
Maybe there is hope for you after all. The unprompted apology is the right thing to do. Now… get your inner peace.. during any and all confrontations, as they happen. Soon no apology will ever be necessary.
Some folks are using this incident to make assumptions about others who they associate with these two men.
Not all freedom lovers flip out when they get annoyed by a provocateur. And not all statist coffee-shop owners are annoying assholes.
This occurred between two individuals, no one else.
“@ KDM If I came up to your roughly $5000 fragile camera in an aggressive manner and incidentally hit part of it with my hand on my way over, could you blame me for perhaps getting a little defensive?
That being said, Sam overreacted. In fact, he acknowledged that and even took the time to apologize for his actions.
I don’t recall hearing Sam, or anybody affilated with the FSP or Free Keene claiming to be incapable of making mistakes. We all make them. The fact that Sam has made an attempt to right his misconduct should indeed show that he is a man of integrity.”
I posted that message in the Reader Comments of that Sentinel article.
James,
I hope you can forgive Sam. We all have lessons we need to learn, we all make mistakes, if we can give him a chance to learn something and grow in to a better person from this, he might.
I am not going to write him off, if he can change. I am going to give him the chance to show me that he can. I’ll still listen to what he has to say and watch his videos. If he overreacts like this again I might not.
Sam, it looks to me like you assaulted him and I think at the very least you should write him the cup he requested along with some additional restitution. After all your great activism and introspection on the ideas of peace, I am surprised you acted in such an aggressive manner.
Having spoken with Sam today about this prior to his post, I believe his apology was sincere. I had suggested he offer to buy drinks and talk to James. He added the camera option, which was clearly suggested as just an option for James.
I was very disappointed in Sam’s behaviour, as he was one who helped turn me to peace.
I also hope he adjusts his behavior in the future, as I don’t want hotheads blogging for Free Keene (that’s why we got rid of AnarchoJesse), but everyone should be able to make some mistakes and apologize before serious consequences are felt.
I’m sorry to see personal allegations splattered here on the comments of this blog.
Wow. Okay. Sam, whatever hopes you had of apologizing and helping to detract from the negativity that may/may not be surrounding you at this time are quickly draining away.
I honestly suggest that you refrain from commenting here anymore, because the things which have already said are going to do absolutely *nothing* to help your cause.
Either stick to the problem at hand, or say nothing at all, unless you want to lose complete credibility.
That’s just my suggestion.
Sam, let me give you some general advice from the peanut gallery.
Its time for a vacation. Take a week, go camping with some close friends, clear your head a bit. Things are really getting out of control, and the last thing FSP needs is someone’s personal issues in their private life being dumped all over the forums.
This is ridiculous stuff, and the kind of thing that can hurt movements. Its time for a break.
i didn’t think i could get more discouraged with this incident, unfortunately i was wrong.
I guess I’m the only one that doesn’t see where Sam went wrong in this ‘interview’? Without commenting on the Sam/ Meg situation which is none of my business, Sam was trying to conduct an interview when a guy interrupted and Sam told him to back off. Ok, so where’s the problem, maybe I’m missing it. People are being stolen from, people are dying, etc. and we’re worried about somebody (Sam) standing up to a guy? Maybe I’m missing something? Sam didn’t do anything wrong here, he protected his space from a prick.
Andrew,
The issue here is not that Sam stood up for himself, but that he did so in a manner which is completely contradictory to what he/the Free Keene Movement claims to stand for. James was exercising his right to freely express his opinion in an public space, and Sam got rather aggressive, when in reality this is exactly what many Free Keene people have been doing when they have been protesting throughout the past year or so.
Sure, you have a right to be an asshole and express your opinion while disrupting an interview, but dont expect that no blowback will come from it.
I wholeheartedly agree with dingdongdugong & Kinley.
I do admire Sam’s activism in the Drinking Game and other areas, particularly his piece from the Detroit airport. As far as the confrontation video with James, it clearly doesn’t rise to the level of “assault”, but it certainly doesn’t look good. And the ex-lovers drama is entirely inappropriate for this forum, better resolved in a private conversation between the two.
I realize that it’s frustrating when a skeptic gets in your face or purposely tries to sabotage your efforts. But I’m guessing most Keeniacs already know that they need to be on their very best behavior at all times, even moreso than the average person who can perhaps “get away” with some rudeness. A single incident like this by a single individual will be used as a broad brush to paint all Keeniacs and Free Staters in a negative light.
Best of luck to everyone for getting the liberty activism & peaceful outreach back on track. Other than this entire thread, I’d say everyone is doing a great job!
Art,
I don’t think James expected any less.
If anything, *James’* actions were blowback to counteract the ways he believes the Free Keeners have often chosen to present themselves in public.
He didn’t expect Sam to react calmly or coolly, which I think was his point–The Free Keeners often demonstrate in frankly obnoxious ways, but then say that people should act peacefully and *not* aggressively–something which Sam obviously did not do.
I agree with Andrew J. They were reacting like men naturally do. There’s a limit to how passive and gentle men should be to their fellow man, particularly one asking for trouble.
“I realize that it’s frustrating when a skeptic gets in your face or purposely tries to sabotage your efforts. But I’m guessing most Keeniacs already know that they need to be on their very best behavior at all times, even moreso than the average person who can perhaps “get away” with some rudeness. A single incident like this by a single individual will be used as a broad brush to paint all Keeniacs and Free Staters in a negative light.”
QFMFT
Did we just witness the undoing of Free Keene?
“you have an employee mindset, and despite paying all your expenses, “your” work being done solely with my resources, my investing over 10K in a business that was basically yours to run, you still claimed I OWED you 20K to make up for it. Sorry, not going to happen.”
This is why Libertarianism can’t sustain itself…because the message is unfettered greed in the guise of social liberty and freedom.
Meg is “free” to work hard for you for a couple years, in your own words “run the business” for you, and at the end of it you stiff her all together claiming “not gunna happen”?? So your not for freedom, but REAL economic Slavery/Serfdom. Working for a place to live and food is not a job, its a collar. A collar much worse than the handcuffs the Police use when you all go down town and push their buttons.
Sam, Don’t dish it out if you can’t take it. Liberty isn’t yours, you don’t own it, and you don’t have more than any of us.
WOW..Heartless…This guy is the face of your movement locally
I’m starting to see your movement for what it really is.
My question is where is the kool-aid?
Ian, let me explain to you what an apology is and should be. First, it should be brief. Sam had a good start, but then failed somewhere in the middle of the second, third or fourth paragraph. Second, it can not be an excuse for the persons behavior or have a condition attached to it. Sam’s totally lame excuse for his feeling threatened by me is ridiculous. And although there was no actual condition set to his letter, to me it seemed like a thinly veiled attempt at more attention. Fail # 2. And above all, an apology needs to be honest and sincere. Does anyone actually believe his excuse? Fail #3.
Fail, fail, and fail. So, no. That was not an apology. For an example, see comment # 11.
Sam,
The bottom line here is that you are only apologizing because you got caught, just like any other common criminal that gets caught doing someting wrong. As stated above, the apology was not sincere because at the end of the day, that is just who you really are. Learn to live with it and continue to show your true colors.
In the meantime, Lights, Action, Camera!!! I cannot wait to find your next taping, when I am not working! LOL!!
after watching the video a different scenario occurred to me- what if this would have been a middle-schooler disturbing sam’s video shoot during a middle-school protest? would sam have felt the need to treat a child the same way for getting in his way while trying to record a scene? would he have thought a child was threatening him also, which in turn caused him to react violently?
Sam is very juvenile at times and has trouble controlling his actions. He will act without thinking, causing consequences that he did not perceive. I am glad that this happened because now people won’t be worshiping Sam as the innocent, peaceful, activist anymore.
Sam, you are a hypocrite. Sam, you have tainted relations with the local people of Keene.
I haven’t read all the comments, just past the last respond from sam to meg. However i can’t understand how people can say that Sam didn’t feel threated. Those are his feelings and you can only know what he really felt by him letting you know. He could be lying(which i doubt) but how are you gonna prove that? like i said those are his feelings, you can’t magically know what they are without him telling you.
James, why do you even think you deserve an apology? You were the antagonistic asshole that wanted to cause a scene and disrupt events with your silly Styrofoam cup.
If you had went up to the military veteran and Sam respectfully I am sure they would have loved to hear and air your disagreement. Instead you decided to act like a petulant child. And, guess what? An adult had to step in and back you down.
I hope sam saw how quickly his people threw him under the bus for his actions on the sentinel source article.
There is a silent majority of Keene that does not agree with the extremist methods used by the free keene movement, because it is compromising the rest of keene’s quality of life.
I understand we have a bitchin state motto, but that doesn’t mean you should take it for granted.
p.s. the cup was paper and obviously empty. C’mon. you’re grasping at straws.
“petulant child”
it’s interesting how a person w/ a different opinion is percieved.
Jess,
I hope you saw how quickly the folks at Free Keene held his feet to the fire as well.
James,
I’ve come to your way of thinking. I don’t think that condition is the right word, but you are right…your apology was simply that…an apology. There was no “I don’t feel as though I [should apologize for X]” which is essentially what the fist sentence of the second paragraph was.
I hope Sam removes that part, and I hope that Sam replaces your cup. And I hope the Keeniacs hold Sam responsible.
I am intersted in where Mr. Jardis is. He is always the first one to chime in with comments when it serves his purpose to be seen as “Holier than Thou” persona.
Now all I see is silence. Oh that might be becaue he is out looking for a job!
Sam, You claim to have felt threatened. I have watched both videos a number of times.
1. James was hardly in the shot, from your camera’s perspective, before you went over and put your face one inch from his. You made the first threatening move. He was being a pest, but by no means actually disrupting the shot. If you had ASKED him to stand in the background, maybe he would have.
2. The cup was quite obviously empty.
3. You are an abusive man both physically and emotionally, from what I’ve seen personally and read. You should get counseling to help you overcome your inner demons, which are obviously quite ugly.
4. I am horrified you would gloss over Meg’s claims of getting a black eye, not by denying it, but by blaming her : “I’m sorry you bumped your eye…” Black eyes don’t happen that way. I spent two years as a domestic violence victims’ counselor, and your response is typical of an abuser’s excuses.
I can now say I myself am scared of you, and following the ideas of your own “society” will ostracize you from any but non-essential contact. I understand people have the right to make mistakes, but I had very little trust in you before this – in fact, my first impression of you, and we have met in person, was that you made my skin crawl the same way my former clients’ abusers did.
You come across as manipulative, and controlling, and are obviously violent when provoked. I hope other people who deal with you will treat you with the same skeptism and caution.
Until proven otherwise, I will believe you are a violent man with a terrible temper, and superiority complex, mascarading as a peaceful activist for attention and probably financial gain.
I am intersted in where Mr. Jardis is. He is always the first one to chime in with comments when it serves his purpose to be seen as “Holier than Thou” persona.
Why, hello. I’ve not been commenting much because I have been busy doing things.
My opinion? I think Sam reacted in a very uncool manner. I wish he hadn’t… and I hope that he doesn’t behave this way again. He is human and he is flawed. He apologized for reacting how he did which I believe was the right thing for him to do. I think it is vital for those of us who believe in non-violence to remain calm at all times.
I don’t think I am “Holier than Thou” … I just think I’m “less violent than you.” Care to disagree with that assertion?
KIDS, KIDS, KIDS!…a bunch of kids! No, I am not being nasty, insulting, or disrespectful. Most everybody involved here is, >ISORCOFFEE CUP<???…WTF???…No, the coffee cup is only a symbol. We all get stressed out & do stupid shit. Big deal. Big fucking deal. I do want to thank you ALL. My life would be so much more boring without all your antics. That is another "DIRTY LITTLE SECRET" about Keene, and the people here. Even the ones who "hate" "freekeene&etc", still, secretly, they are glad for the "activities". Just enough to add some excitement to this boring little town. The resistance from "keene" is a measure of "freekeene's" SUCCESS!…So, to ALL of YOU, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! WAIT UNTIL THE STUDENTS GET BACK! YOWWEE!……(Hate to mention this, but, recently, a position has become open, for Queen of Keene. Any of you ladies interested? Hey, I'm just sayin', that's all!…~tKoK…
Chris,
If Sam ‘felt threatened’ as he claimed, why would he have placed himself merely inches from James’ face, rather then running in the opposite direction?
James,
Not very gracious of you. Sam apologized and offered to buy two new cups from your own business. Perhaps if you’d accepted his offer to talk, by the end of the conversation you’d have a cup with the words written on it, as per your request.
It’s clear you aren’t interested in advancing any sort of adult discussion.
Hope you change your mind.
The undoing of Free Keene because some participants’ personal drama was aired in public? Please. This movement has suffered worse.
Oh crap, a relationship broke up nastily and publicly, guess it’s all over for us!
Art,
“James, why do you even think you deserve an apology? You were the antagonistic asshole ”
When then I certainly hope non of the Free Keeners who have been involved in past demonstrations where the were antagonistic assholes (your choice of words, not mine) to both the law enforcers and the community at large think they deserve any sort of apology for being arrested, or respect at all.
Please identify who the “antagonistic assholes” were. If it wasn’t one of our bloggers, than it wasn’t a “Free Keener”.
Ian, can you not read? Do I need to explain it to you again? An apology that is not sincere, truthful or is full of lame excuses, is not an apology. Read mine, then read his. See if you can tell the difference.
Sam’s actions remind me all too much of what we’ve seen from the police. They’ll put themselves in a position where it’s hard to not touch them, then if you touch a cop they can do whatever they want: http://freekeene.com/2010/01/17/big-mike-arrested-raw-video/
“I do not feel I owe you a new cup, as it was a closed container that was put in my face, and I truly felt threatened.”
So what? Is that how you react when you feel threatened? What about all that “there is no way to peace; peace is the way” stuff you like to regularly espouse?
If you want to do the freedom movement right, you’ve got to take the lumps and abuse when they come without being aggressive and instigating anything. Do your thing, be polite, be peaceful, take the threats, take the abuse. Advocates of civil disobedience should aware of this.
There is no way to peace; peace is the way.
Ian,
You asked my this same question on the forum, and I will give you the same answer.
Asking James to identify who he has felt antagonized him in the Free Keene movement throughout the past year by looking at pictures online is no more ridiculous as if I had asked Sam to identify James out of a group of 50 pictures online before he saw the video, only months later.
You asking for specifics when there are dozens, if not hundreds of people in Keene who are willing to say that they have felt antagonized by a Free Keene activist at one time or another is merely an excuse to distance yourself/the movement from a problem which most citizens in Keene–and frankly, many of your members themselves–know exists.
I think it would be much wiser for you to acknowledge the fact that sometimes people associated with Free Keene get a little in-your-face, rather than try to hide behind the technicalities of who specifically did it.
James,
The apology was for his aggression toward you. That was not excused or caveated in anyway. The excuse was for why he felt he didn’t owe you a new cup, but it was followed by an offer to buy you two and sit down and talk.
You accuse that of looking for attention – first, I suggested he post it to the blog as it’s own post because I felt it was lost in his other post. I thought his apology needed to be front and center so people would see it. Also, he clearly said you don’t have to have cameras there if you don’t want.
I agree with you that his fear of your cup was silly, but he clearly wasn’t thinking straight and was blinded by his anger and aggression, which he apologized for.
That you are refusing to meet with him and sit down and talk is pretty sad. He’s trying to make good and come to a mutual understanding, but you’re using it as an excuse to claim he’s grandstanding.
Why not accept his invitation? I think it would be good for both of you. If you don’t want cameras there, just say so.
holy_canole,
You are “associated” with FK by the fact that you are posting here. Am I responsible now for your actions?
The only people responsible for Free Keene are the bloggers, who are clearly identified on our bloggers page. Everyone else’s actions are not ours.
Sam blew it, but outside of his actions the other day, if you can’t say it was an FK blogger that got in your face, then it wasn’t Free Keene who did it to you. That’s what I’m trying to make clear.
Sure, but the fact is, there are some people who identify with this movement, or are at least doing liberty activism in Keene, who are behaving badly — and the reality is, if pro-freedom folks want to be effective, we have to try to find a way to influence these people in the right directions.
The movements of MLK and Gandhi are mentioned very often here as admirable examples, and in both cases there were clear lines regarding appropriate behavior, and actions outside of those lines were vociferously opposed.
They actually underwent training to learn how to take abuse and respond with love and kindness, or at least passive nonviolence.
A concerted effort needs to be made to reform the liberty movement in Keene to have the highest standards for behavior. Self control, and consideration of others is paramount.
“Ian, can you not read? Do I need to explain it to you again? An apology that is not sincere, truthful or is full of lame excuses, is not an apology. Read mine, then read his. See if you can tell the difference.”
Gotta agree with James on this one.
Ian,
I am not saying that you have to be responsible for everyone’s actions, I am just saying that you, as well as I, know that there have been plenty of instances where people who are not just associated (maybe that was a poor choice of words) but *part* of the Free Keene movement have been obnoxious and antagonistic to the rest of the citizens of Keene.
Are you seriously going to deny that? Or do you want me to get you some middle schoolers you can talk to and ask how they felt when you were yelling at them as they were trying to leave school?
He apologized for his anger, but not his actions. He grabbed the cup, and my arm. And his excuse is not silly, it is a lie. I have no interest in sitting down and talking to someone who will not own up to the fact that he was lying to me. And it casts doubt on the sincerity of his “apology”. Yes, I think he is grandstanding. And I supposes you could say I am as well. But I apologized for my actions. He did not. Had he truly been sorry for his actions, he would realize it was his actions that destroyed my property. You guys are all into property rights, aren’t you? He needs to replace it, with the slogan. You should know it by now, it’s: “FREE KEENE FROM THE FREE STATERS” No point in going round and round on this same issue. Either he apologizes or he doesn’t. I have no interest in further discussion if he chooses the latter.
Yeah, the beginning of the second paragraph was no good. But, I do wish James would sit down with Sam, and I recommend *NO* cameras. I also recommend Sam make that cup.
A cup is cheap. The only reason not to is pride, and true humility is essential in any person working for reform.
Reformers need to be truly outstanding people, willing to tolerate large amounts of abuse, and respond with kindness — and very quick to show humility. I don’t think all activists are holding themselves to that high standard — and some are not even really seeking to. This is what needs to change.
Holy,
Please find those middle schoolers, because all I ever did was hold a sign/banner and hand out fliers. That’s all anyone ever did at the middle school except Sam, who spoke through a megaphone. Speaking is not yelling.
Again, the only people who are “part” of FK are the bloggers. Everyone else is merely associated by having a forum post or blog comment, same as you.
James,
Sorry, but the way I read his first paragraph, he clearly regrets his actions. He even uses the word “actions”. You seem to be upset because he didn’t specify exactly what they were. I thought shorter was better?
His actions and aggressive behaviour includes getting in your face, crushing the cup, and grabbing your arm. Seemed clear to me and sincere.
If he were to post an apology specific to his actions, would you accept it as just a comment on this thread? Would him getting specific get you to meet with him?
“You guys are all into property rights, aren’t you? He needs to replace it, with the slogan. You should know it by now, it’s: “FREE KEENE FROM THE FREE STATERS””
Seems like a reasonable request to me. I think Sam should practice what he preaches and replace the property that he destroyed.
I’ve removed the comments regarding personal allegations between Sam and Meg, but only at their mutual request.
Sounds like a condition to me, only in reverse? Were he sincere, he would have done it long ago. I’m done with this. Peace. Out.
Ian,
Expect to see many disgruntled citizens voicing their opinions on the way the Free Keene group chooses to publicly present itself in the very near future. The video has caused growing momentum and people are ready to start demonstrating the ways in which they believe their town should really be represented.
The fact that you blindly ignore the often aggressive manner in which Free Keene conducts its protests says more about your own character than anything else. I believe that many, if not most of the people reading this debate will agree with me when I say that Free Keene has often acted ‘in your face.’ The fact that you are asking for things as specific as facial identification shows that you are truly grasping at straws when it comes to this issue.
Holy,
Free Keene cannot act. It is a series of ones and zeroes in a computer somewhere. Only individuals can act.
You have made accusations but refused to identify the alleged culprits. Therefore your accusations are without merit.
Have there been obnoxious people at some events created by FK’s bloggers? Sure, but they are public places where anyone can show up. For all I know they are agents provocateur.
Let me know when you have some evidence of someone who actually writes for FK’s blog behaving in the ways you are alleging. I’ll take them to task just like I did with Sam.
Ian,
I am not going to sit down and play games with you. I have stated what I have seen to be true when it comes to the actions Free Keene has taken in the past year or so, and other people readily agree with me.
When you say that ‘Free Keene cannot act, only individuals can act’ you are going completely off of technicalities. I am not going to argue semantics with you. You know, as well as I do, what I mean when I say that Free Keene does something.
The fact of the matter is, it doesn’t matter who did what or when they did it. People who claim to be associated with Free Keene have become increasingly more irritating and ever-present in the lives of average Keene citizens. If you don’t think the people who are doing these things are actually part of Free Keene, then I suggest you figure out who they are and ask them to stop associating themselves with the group, since they seem to be at all of your protests/rallies/etc.
People in Keene are ready to get their positive image back. They are not going to do this by protesting the Free Keene group, or any of its rights. Rather, they are willing to demonstrate that not all Keene citizens approve of the way many Free Keene members/associates have chosen to present themselves.
Ian,
I am sorry to see that you chose to remove Sam & Meg’s comments. I think they were very enlightening as to the true nature of Free Keene’s high profile “pacifist” representative Mr. Sam. This action also makes me wonder how much additional “revisionist blogging” takes place on this site. Do you remove all posts that show your representatives to be schmucks (as long as you can convince them to agree to their removal). Poor choice in the credibility department sir!
Curious,
I agree with Ian’s decision to remove the posts. The were incredibly personal and really had nothing to with the topic at hand. I’m all for freedom of information, but I also think there is a time and a place. I truly appreciated Meg’s sentiments and I empathize with her, but perhaps her, and Sam’s thoughts would be better heard in a forum dedicated solely to the purpose of letting people know what happened in that situation.
Not to mention, the damage was already done….many many people already saw what was written, no sense leaving it up to solicit further discomfort.
Ian’s credibility is not damaged by this action because he stated when, and what he removed…he is not trying to cover anything up, but simply keep things where they belong.
There are no comments removed from this site except those advocating violence or racism.
The posts were removed by consent of Sam and Meg.
I think it’s pretty clear that Sam has an anger management issue so that’s not been covered up.
There is still a forum thread that exists with more detail on their conflict, should you wish to find it.
Not that I care about my credibility with anonymous critics like you, “curious”.
You removed Sam and Meg’s comments with their ‘mutual consent’, Ian, but mine were obliterated without so much as a ‘by your leave’. I wonder how many other comments get blasted off these pages and are not noticed.
I’ll put it right down here, remove it if you wish, I don’t care. I think FreeKeene’s continued association with Sam Dodson is a ding to FreeKeene’s reputation and that of its bloggers. Luckily for you I love FTL too much to boycott it completely, but I will no longer listen on nights when Sam is a cohost.
That clear enough? My little corner of the market has spoken. Unless and until Sam Dodson shows himself to be repentant and peaceful on a consistent basis, I want nothing to do with the man.
Thanks
Andy
Never mind, I typed out a whole spiel and it got erased somehow. I shall repost later.
I will mention I am not happy about having my own comments deleted from your site, Ian, as they were peaceful and I was not consulted (I know I don’t have to be).
Superciliousness doesn’t look good on you, bud
Are these people really playing the “my apology is better than yours” game? You’ll have to excuse me if I don’t make James my new role model.
An Open Letter to The Free Keene Movement:
Well, it has been an interesting couple of days, to say the least. The emotions and frustrations which have bubbled up in the past few days have been remarkable. Your movement may have grand ideals, but your tactics in the past have been far less than admirable. Yes, I understand you are a group of individuals, but you are a group none the less. And hiding behind the claims that it is just a loose affiliation, and don’t attack the movement for the actions of an individual is just a way to avoid responsibility. And you will gain no respect without acting responsibly. I had no “plan” as to what I was going to do on Thursday evening. I had no Idea Sam would be conducting an interview in front of City Hall. But when I walked up, I saw it as a way to put a little of the annoying tactics your movement uses right back in your face. A little tiny sign, on a paper cup. Not some huge banner with “FreeKeene Sucks”, or a bullhorn yelling at you. Was I irritating? You bet. Did I stop Sam from interviewing? No. In fact, if you watch the footage from Sam’s camera, the cup wasn’t even in the shot while he was doing the interview. And the soldier being interviewed didn’t seem the least bit rattled by it (excellent training). But I wanted to make a point, that your group can dish it out (annoying tactics) and you expect everyone else to take it (the police & other citizens) but you can’t take it. And Sam provided the perfect example of that point. Even the girl who was with him (Heika?) can be seen later in the interview, knocking my hand and cup away to get it out of the scene . Does free speech only apply to your message? Are you the only ones who have the right to use annoying and offensive methods? When you use bullhorns in front of the middle school, and a 12 year old reacts, you claim assault. Assault is the threat of violence, and that can clearly be seen when Sam gets right in my face. The fact that I have not yet filed charges should be taken as a good will gesture, and I would suggest you reflect on the ways in which you conduct yourselves in the future. My daughter has formed a group, and she wants to further the dialogue with your group. Great. No problem with that. But keep up the ridiculous tactics and the in your face style, and I think you will see quite a backlash from the people of Keene. Do I want to sit down with Sam or anyone else in your group and discuss your organization and ideas? Not particularly. I was given a half hearted apology with a lame excuse attached, so I see no point until you want to be honest. I have no problem with you having your ideas, and I having mine. Just don’t try to shove your ideas down my throat with annoying and irritating tactics.
Haha — you felt threatened by a cup.
I personally will have little to do with Sam or the things he produces (including his FTL appearances) until he proves himself to be more stable and less violent toward his fellows. In my view his apology sucked, and he’s not impressing me at all right now.
Take heed, Ian. Sam is a loose cannon and he is driving people away from the movement. This movement is about individuals. I individually care little for Sam at this point and individually want little to do with him.
Man up and show us some real regret over your anger issues, Sam, and consider a course in anger management. I took one once (under duress) and it actually helped me a lot.
Thanks
James, everyone already agrees that what Sam did was wrong. You’re beating a dead horse.
This whole thing seems very petty to me. No one was injured, and only a paper cup was destroyed. I don’t think Sam should be obligated to reproduce an exact cup. Providing sufficient restitution only requires that he pay damages. So what is the cup and time to write on it worth? $.10? So give him a dime and be done with it. Really though, this is pretty silly.
In the larger scheme, it is very unrealistic for anyone to expect an individual to be perfect, no matter what they believe. Everyone makes mistakes, and this is precisely what makes this movement so important. It is because men are violent and oppressive that it is important that we are free to control our own lives. Sam advocates removing the legitimized, violent institutions from our society. Even were he to go out and murder a group of people, that doesn’t all of a sudden make violence okay. So why don’t we all stop pretending that one person’s actions somehow define the movement, and instead focus on the problems that are very real.
de minimis non curat lex
Steven,
I agree with you that the cup thing is petty, in reality, but it’s about a bigger ‘moral value’ as it were.
It’s interesting because I have been speaking with Sam in another forum and he mentioned to me that one of his signs was destroyed by an onlooker (Cody) at one of the ‘School Sucks’ rallies at the middle school.
What was Sam’s reaction to this? I’ll quote it for you: “The following week, I let Cody’s friends know (with the megaphone) that he destroyed my property and refused to make good. I let them know that they should think hard about being friends with Cody, because if he doesn’t like them, he might steal or destroy their property too. ”
James isn’t doing anything *nearly* to this extent, but the fact that Sam isn’t willing to replace the cup, is just another example of how he expects different reactions from others than the reactions he himself displays.
i just wanted to publicly apologize for airing out my personal issues in this blog. it was inappropriate, and i did agree to it being taken down since it didn’t belong here.
i make mistakes (lots of them), and i am sorry for not always living up to my own beliefs in forgiveness.
but i will continue to grow, and hopefully come out a better person in the end.
sorry everyone. and sorry sam.
man,that guy Gallaway went there specifically to give free staters crap.
It is cool that sam was a better man by apologizing (which James is the one that REALLY should apologize)
To me; Sam didnt need to apologize.
That guy went there to antagonize and harass the free staters.
That guy,Gallaway,was a idiot and he doesn’t even know what he doesn’t like.
Imho,he went there to start crap and is lucky he didnt get worse
It still comes down to Sam not being able to live up to his own ideals. James did nothing more than Sam has done on many occasions, and ridiculed those who responded with much more restraint than Sam did in this incident. Sam, you should get some help for your anger issues and learn not to expect more from others than you are able to achieve yourself.
this is a dead horse…….I can see where a free stater would get fed up with the negative stuff that some keene residents dish out …………..so i disagree with u \”curious\” …………. and that guy was a gutter snipe
PEACE
So David, using your assessment, Sam and all of those like him are also “gutter snipes”. All James did was give them a taste of their own tactics.
Then again, I don’t expect a dead horse to listen to reason………………
you are wrong
peace
there was a interview going on and the gutter snipe was interfering with it and starting trouble
and getting in Sam’s personal space to the point of touching and he was harrasing …he could have been arested
I dont believe this is the “same thing” that u mentioned
the only thing i felt sam did wrong was the “take you down ” remark .its ok to SAY that just not on tape or with witnesses but the man was threatening so its understandable that man was threatening and one doesnt know what a stranger is capable of so……. sam was very much in a position to defend himself
PEACE
For those saying James was “giving Sam a dose of his own medicine” I have this to say:
The Free Keene folks, whose protests you say are “obnoxious and antagonistic”, are standing up to a far more obnoxious and antagonistic group. What’s more obnoxious and antagonistic than using a bullhorn on the sidewalk outside a middle school? Forcing everyone living within a certain area to pay for that school or else face dire consequences. What’s more obnoxious and antagonistic than holding signs and protesting outside City Hall? Being dragged to the police station and later City Hall for holding a plant in your hand. That is obnoxious and antagonistic.
Our protests are tame in comparison to the real aggressors in our society.
Having said that, we all agree Sam reacted poorly to Mr. Callaway.
PaulO,
What is ‘obnoxious and antagonistic’ to you, might not be to another person. It is very subjective. You can’t say that paying taxes is more obnoxious and antagonistic to James than the attitudes he has witnessed at some of the protests.
And, even so, free speech is free speech….you don’t have to only react to the things that are the ‘most’ obnoxious and antagonistic, do you?
David and PaulO, are you even serious? Was Sam conducting the interview on public or private property? Did Heika hit my hand away? Does free speech only apply to you? Were my methods so much more obnoxious than what they have done in the past? Perhaps I should have stayed out of the shot and used a bullhorn from 2 feet away. That would have stopped the interview. I was peaceful. Obnoxious but peaceful. I showed restraint. They showed their true selves. Violent, unstable, and unable to allow others to voice their opinion. They deserve no respect from peaceful people who desire change.
Oh, shut up, you sanctimonious asshole.
You love the state (MOST VIOLENTEST THING EVER, DUUUH) and you’ll bitch about a guy slapping a cup and a chick slapping a hand?
Fuck it, Meg forgave Sam so I do too.
Piss on you, James, now I’m gonna go watch some OTN
Sam, watch your temper
Sam gets two more strikes and then he’s removed from the blog.
I think he is going to be alright. He went to the Quaker meeting this week.
Sounds like the twisted bozo who disrupted the interview has no regrets and will do it again in a heartbeat!
He butted into a video shoot that was none of his fucking business, to start a ruckus and is still ridiculing you all.
It was a set up; it’s sad that it was so easily done.
It’s easy to look at it that way, but really it was individuals, interacting with one another, tempers flare, and voila! Mess! Sure, it looks bad that somebody on the liberty side lost his cool, but people are people. Wanna tell me the state people never lose their cool? The video evidence would score it thousands and thousands for the state, and ONE for liberty activists in Keene.
Certainly no mountain. Molehill is closer. The statists would love to turn this one little conflagration into the end of the liberty movement up there.
Nice try, guys, but cooler heads, and liberty, will prevail
It’s such a shame James can’t be as mature, calm, and collected as his daughter. She has been wonderful with open communication for EVERYBODY in a very repectful way. I almost find it hard to believe Annie and James are related! With that said, James, be a man and let it go already! No one really cares anymore. The more you bitch and moan that someone ruined a cup that is worth pennies, the worse it makes you look. And you and I both know I did not slap your hand. Public area, our hands barely touched. And you will never get an apology for something so trivial from me because you are not worth my time. Yes, tempers flared on all ends, and everyone apologized. Grow up and get over it. Most people feel that you are being childish about this, almost a week later…Even many of your employees…
Sam was willing to replace the cup with the message if only James would sit down with him to talk.
James has refused as of this point in time and is demanding Sam do 50 hours of community service.
Ian, that was a suggestion, made in private not on a public forum, as a way for Sam to show he is sincere. It was in no way a demand or condition. And I thought working at a woman\’s shelter might do him some good. But it was only a suggestion, and he was free to come up with anything to show he was serious. And you agreed to keep it in confidence. I guess you are not trustworthy either. Heika, why didn’t I come up with that lame excuse. Sorry if my free speech got in the way of yours.
Way to be a dick, Dude.
You really want free-staters to go away? Help us get rid of the coercive monopoly that runs the place.
Writing words on a cup and shoving it into people’s faces and blocking their camera isn’t going to do it. It’s not going to get us to choose less offensive methods of making our points, either.
Has Arbitration been mentioned as an option? It seems like the best way to deal with this.
Marty,
“Way to be a dick, Dude……Has Arbitration been mentioned as an option?” Wow, that really makes me want to sit down and talk. Now I am sure of everyone’s sincerity. Thanks. Oh, and sorry about the sarcasm.
Way to go with the open minds. David-adding ‘peace’ to everything you say makes you less of a dickhead?? The entire movement on the square was designed to get in peoples faces.Now someone gets in Sams face,and you start crying?? ‘Lucky he didn’t get worse’ WTF-Peace,man! Try getting in my face and I will show you ‘worse’ .The fact is,when the same tactics are used by the opposition,it somehow becomes unfair.Grow up,and grow a set.Sams actions are not supported by a majority of the posters and participants here.Yes,I did read and count them.
Marty-arbitration is a harder option when you are being called a dick.Try it sometime,dick! —bil
Perhaps this is a better way to state it?
James, your initial behavior and continued belligerence is offensive to me, and from the comments, I am not alone in this sentiment. As a local business owner, It is in your best interest to keep a good reputation. In order to repair your reputation with myself as well as many others, I would strongly suggest you enter formal or informal arbitration proceedings with Sam. I find it likely that you will leave these proceedings satisfied with the results, provided you go in looking for results and not an argument. I also humbly request that you allow cameras into them, as I’d much love to see the proceedings. Besides, what good is serving someone a slice of humble pie if you’re the only one who gets to see it?
bil, I acknowledge my wording wasn’t well suited to getting a polite response from him. However, My mother did teach me a rhyme once about that very subject.
to “bil”
you are wrong
peace
Marty-your mother was obviously a wise woman-your response shows it. I hope you accept my retraction of the use towards you of the descriptive, dick. I was obviously wrong.
David -nice arguement, with many well-thought out points. It will take a while to digest and respond. If this is the best you can do,try reading martys response, that is how a real response should look. Peace.
BTW,the coffee and service at Jamess’ place is great,I would recomend it. I find it hard to understand the reaction towards someone that that is speaking his mind,and using the same methods as used on the common. —bil
Bil, Retraction accepted. It’s clear that, human beings, when acting before thought, have a tendency to do or say stupid things. My first comment here clearly shows that.
I’m sure James runs a fine coffee shop, and I certainly don’t object to him voicing his opinion of the methods that some of the free-staters in keene have used. I object to those same methods. I strongly suggest they take a class in non-violent resistance, similar to the ones taken by MLK’s supporters during the civil rights movement. I know I plan to, before I go to any activism events. Perhaps we could get one at the Liberty Forum?
What I would not do, is use those same methods to “make a point”. Two wrongs do not make a right. You cannot use aggressive methods and expect peace to be the result. I don’t contest that Sam’s response to James’ poor choice of venue and method was extreme, unnecessary, and aggressive in nature. I could take a still that shows James clearly cowering and appearing to use the cup as a shield (Just before it bumped Sam’s face). I don’t condone any behavior that would produce such a reaction from anyone.
What I do not get is why someone who claims to be a victim, and clearly, is correct, would not voluntarily enter into even an informal arbitration, in order to get restitution. Both have apologized, but it doesn’t appear as if the situation is resolved. Were I in James’ shoes, I’d love a chance to “hang him on his own petard”, as it were, by using the system he advocates to set Sam straight. (And get someone to buy me a coffee from my own shop.)
saying “what Mr callaway did ” is the “same as” what the free staters do is simply not TRUE
callaway interfered with a interview with a iraq vet who was against the war .
And mr callaways motive for interupting/interfering with a interview with a fighter for out country : “i dont like the free staters”.I for one would have liked to see the interview uninterupted
what sam does is for the BENIFIT of callaway and the rest of keene .meaning HONEST JUSTICE AND exposing INJUSTICE…….ie the wars the corrupt “justice system” and keeping the people honest by using cameras..
I did like his buisness establishment ;now that i know the behavior of its owner I’m a little less enthused about his place…. (though i will still go)
But the “counter intelligence” there are awesome
also there are enough people FOR the “INjustice system”
how about some support for the VERY few fighters for real justice
after all its for me you and Mr Callaway
Peace
one would expect support from here
there is enough non support lots of other places
James has refused as of this point in time and is demanding Sam do 50 hours of community service.
Perhaps James would be more understanding of our positions if he were investigated and prosecuted for the potential crime he is committing by making these demands?
I’m trying to get a handle on the principles of Free State theory as it applies to the reality of Keene since I’m just over the mountain in Vermont.
There are two informative videos on this site under the “New Here?” tab that you might watch to learn about the most basic precepts.
Just watch the first 3 minutes of the first video to understand my confusion about this confrontation, the reaction of some commenting here and, as a result, the Free State concept.
I did as you suggested, but it’s not tying together for me. What are you getting at?
Bradley-are you refering to extortion? If not,then what?
David- I would agree that in this instance the camera did indeed serve the purpose of keeping things honest. I also would like to see the interview, Mr. Calloway has done nothing to prevent this from going forward. He only interfered with it being done in a public place,as is his right.
And Marty, I also would like to see Mr. Calloway use this occasion to ‘hoist with his own petard’ to settle this.However,he has chosen not too. It may lead to his own ‘hoisting’, I don’t know. But the incident has certainly brought about a sea change in tactics from all angles. —bil
Ian,
James isn’t demanding anything. From what I have heard he has suggested that Sam do some things that would assure him that he is someone who doesn’t necessarily need to spend some time in jail. It is not blackmail, and as James already said, it was done in a private forum as a way to hopefully keep things private and under control…something which I think you should be grateful of if you are hoping Sam’s credibility stands a chance of being repaired.
Also, Sam damaged James’ property. James doesn’t have to sit down with him to talk if he doesn’t want to, but Sam, legally, really should replace the cup–conversation or not.
You are severely misrepresenting the situation.
To those of you who are suggesting James should have a discussion with Sam,
Do you truly think this would be beneficial? Can you really see the conversation between these two people going well? Obviously their ideologies clash, and I think it is pretty obvious that tempers would easily get heated.
It wouldn’t really accomplish anything because both seem to hold strong beliefs in their own stance, and seem to be pretty stubborn.
James asked for the cup to be replaced, which was reasonable (and no, a meeting should not be required). Adding 50 (!?) hours of community service long after the fact is absurd.
I’ve seen his manner here, he’s not a man who’s looking for reconciliation, or fair restitution. He’s an angry man looking for his pound of flesh, and figured if he was going to get the cup, he’d have to add something else on to keep the conflict going.
Every day, every week, I have the same thought…”I really shouldn’t be wasting so much of my time on this site”…Every week. Every day. Same thing. That pisses me off…~Sam THE SHAM…<—(yes, I think both "James Callaway", & Sam "whatever-the-fuck-his-name-is" are BOTH IDIOT ASSHOLES, and this whole thing is such a waste of EVERYTHING, (including time.) (Time is a waste of time, but let's talk about that later.)
I WILL JILL YOU KAMES! YOU FUCKING IN MY FACE SHEESH OF PIT!…peace!…
Paul,
The community service issue is completely separate. I suggest you talk to Ian if you want the details because it was not intended by James to be public, but Ian has seen the need to make it so.
But just be clear, he is not asking that Sam to community service simply because his cup was damaged.
…a coffee cup. a PAPER COFFEE CUP?…with FREE KEENE FROM FREE KEENE? Actually, I like that. “FREE KEENE FROM FREE KEENE”…”Hey, man, what’s your name?”…”Well, I’m Free Keene, from free Keene!…FREE KEENE FROM FREE KEENE!…FREE KEENE FROM FREE KEENE!…FREE KEENE FROM FREE KEENE!…
I would hope that informal arbitration (also known as two guys hashing out their differences over coffee) would be sufficient, But, given what I have seen from their actions and attitudes, I doubt that would end well. In order for a peaceful solution, moderated, formal arbitration may be necessary.
Marty,
What do you think they need to talk about? I think both understand the other side of the situation pretty well….what would you hope they would accomplish in a conversation?
“replace a paper cup\” how DAFT is that……..i can SEE that one in the courts.lmao………….um helooooooooooooooo its a PAPER CUP
ok never mind
um anyone who says \”replace a paper cup\”
is NOT serious person …..i dont know…….yes that is in need o serious litigation ……… and like a teams o lawyers
on second thought i will dip into my vast funds and step forward to replace this cup and it wont even be used:.large or small?
and thus things will be all better
A case of cups would likely not help…
David,
Why do you think that damaging someone’s property and asking for restitution would not hold up in court?
I don’t care what his reason is. He’s tacking on extra things, long after the fact, in order to keep making an issue of something which should have been long since resolved. Tempers flared, it was unfortunate, but it happens. No significant damage occurred, both parties should apologize, replace the cup if necessary, and move on with their lives.
To keep this going is very childish.
Of course, if Ian made private communications public, that’s also wrong.
I wish we could have a few adults among the principals in this situation. Canole, you’re acting like one, but I’m not seeing many others.
A peaceful solution that results in both parties satisfied with the results, without involving additional use of force by bringing in the Police and charging one or the other (or both!) with assault.
Revelation of James’ exact issues with the Free-staters, so that they may be addressed in a meaningful manner.
And a test-case for a voluntary justice system, if nothing else.
@Lpviper Here’s the part that ties it together, IMO.
“The central tenet of all systems of human morality is the non-agressive principle.”
“Don’t hit. Don’t push. Don’t hurt. Don’t steal.”
“Violence, bullying and threats only make whatever problem you’re trying to solve worse.”
I’m unsure if the people suggesting James would have “gotten worse” if he did his coffeecupping (coffeecupping; like bullhorning but quieter) to them are part of the Free State movement or provocateurs. As I noted in another thread, I thought James was the Free Stater and he had my sympathy for being bullied by the aggressive, bigger guy.
Paul,
Again, I think you should ask Ian, or Sam, directly what the situation is before making judgements on whether or not James is simply trying to drag the issue out. I hope that they will tell you the truth (actually, I hope that they won’t say anything since it is supposed to be a private matter).
Ian is the one who brought the issue up in public, wouldn’t he be the one considered to be ‘dragging it out’?
David and PaulO, are you even serious? Was Sam conducting the interview on public or private property? Did Heika hit my hand away? Does free speech only apply to you? Were my methods so much more obnoxious than what they have done in the past?
I very clearly was comparing the Free Keene methods to what the state does. The Free Keene protests are tame by comparison with the extortion and terrorism used by the state.
What is ‘obnoxious and antagonistic’ to you, might not be to another person. It is very subjective. You can’t say that paying taxes is more obnoxious and antagonistic to James than the attitudes he has witnessed at some of the protests.
It isn’t that subjective. If I went up to James and demanded he pay for a new school with an implied threat of force, I’m sure he’d agree that would be worse than what Sam did. Just because he is conditioned to blindly do whatever the people in costumes ask him to do does not make the real evil less evil. I believe in God, and right and wrong. Some things are not that subjective.
And, even so, free speech is free speech….you don’t have to only react to the things that are the ‘most’ obnoxious and antagonistic, do you?
I must apologize as I do not understand what you’re saying here. I was pointing out that if you want to use the Free Keene methods against us, consider putting it in terms of what you’re protesting against. Here’s an analogy that may clear up what I was trying to communicate: Using a bullhorn is to organized gunmen conducting extortion and terrorism as ___________ is to using a bullhorn. I’ll let the Free Keene from the Free Keene Stigma folks fill in the blank.
I see what you mean, Vince, but one has to allow for the reality of real life, where people are not perfect, and situations become heated, and circumstance drives tempers over the edge.
I think it would be a bit much to say that one man losing his cool in one situation defames an entire movement.
Marty,
As of now the police have not been notified of the issue by either parties. Suggesting that these two will be able to resolve their personal issues over a conversation is pretty unrealistic, in my opinion.
They both have a basic understanding for why each acted the way they did, there’s no reason to force anymore interaction.
I officially hate this thread
Bradley-are you referring to extortion? If not,then what?
The crime is called “compounding.”
Paul,
“It isn’t that subjective. If I went up to James and demanded he pay for a new school with an implied threat of force, I’m sure he’d agree that would be worse than what Sam did. Just because he is conditioned to blindly do whatever the people in costumes ask him to do does not make the real evil less evil. I believe in God, and right and wrong. Some things are not that subjective.”
Conditioned or not, James *still* may not find paying taxes to support public schools obnoxious or antagonizing. You have to be willing to accept that not everyone believes the same things you do if you want to truly live in a ‘liberated’ society.
“I must apologize as I do not understand what you’re saying here. I was pointing out that if you want to use the Free Keene methods against us, consider putting it in terms of what you’re protesting against. Here’s an analogy that may clear up what I was trying to communicate: Using a bullhorn is to organized gunmen conducting extortion and terrorism as ___________ is to using a bullhorn. I’ll let the Free Keene from the Free Keene Stigma folks fill in the blank.”
I understood what you were saying, I was just trying to point out that you can speak out against anything, in anyway you see fit. Sure, there may have been better or grander things or ways could have chosen to protest, but the fact that he doesn’t shouldn’t really factor into the conversation, seeing as we are just discussing the situation as it happened, not as it *could* have happened.
Not just any old discussion (that’s what I’m calling informal arbitration)
What I am suggesting is Formal, Moderated, arbitration: James, Sam, and a neutral party mutually selected by them, or, failing that, the people they each selected, and a neutral party selected by those people, get together, whether in a public or private place, and determine the damages owed to the injured party, a payment schedule, if necessary, and anything else that needs resolution.
In other words, a court case, but without the judge, the jury, or the man with the gun.
Marty,
Do you really think going through all of that just to have them both say what they have been saying here is necessary?
I’m sure they’ll run into each other in the future, anyways.
You’re right, I don’t know all private communications.
I have seen James’ behavior, both during and after the event, and it’s been childish and vindictive. It’s blatantly obvious he wants to milk this opportunity to stick it to someone he personally dislikes, and his absurd request for 50 hours of community work ($500+ value) tracks perfectly. Sam’s behavior has been angry, prideful, and also childish.
This reminds me of a third grade school fight. Then again, most grade schoolers I’ve known are capable of resolving conflicts in under a week …
Tempers flared, it happens. Sam, give him the cup, James, let it go, and lets move on with our lives like adults.
I understand that people disagree about ideas and tactics. Let’s have those discussions, as canole is, for example, and let’s try to find a way to form mutually beneficial ideas and plans.
Or, we could just spend our time on childish spats forever, if that’s all we’re capable of …
Frankly, I don’t want to hear anything else about James and Sam. I want to hear about what kind of constructive activism we can choose, that will be effective, positive, and not get in the way of average folks enjoying their lives.
Paul,
I agree with you, it is very childish, on both accounts. Both seem to be pretty stubborn people. However, again, I suggest you get the whole story on the community service issue before tying it in with the stubbornness.
It’s necessary, because regardless of what they’re saying here, it’s clearly not resolved. I can’t speak to Sam’s state of mind, but it’s pretty clear James is still pissed.
If we let these things fester, when they run into each other in the future, it may end as poorly as handing each of them a hot cup of coffee and telling them to work out their differences might now.
I, for one, don’t like seeing people in cages. Especially if that person being in a cage gets in the way of him serving me a delicious cup of coffee.
Marty,
I understand your wish for resolution. I, myself, am usually the person who tries to make things better, or less awkward between two people (I hesitate to say ‘peace-keeper’ because I know how loaded those words are in this forum haha).
However, I think it sometimes comes to a point where third-parties…such as you and myself…need to realize that this is an issue between two adults (as childish as they may act at times) and it is up to them to work things out, if they want to.
I don’t think forcing (or even strongly suggesting) them to do anything that one, or both of them doesn’t want to do, is going to help the situation.
I edited my comment after you replied, HC, sorry about that.
What do you think of my proposal? Let’s stop all being drawn into and wasting our time on the Sam/James thing, and lets talk about what kinds of activism, for the future, would be positive and effective.
I think it sometimes comes to a point where third-parties…such as you and myself…need to realize that this is an issue between two adults (as childish as they may act at times) and it is up to them to work things out, if they want to.
Excellent, I agree wholeheartedly. Let’s leave them to it, and lets work to create something positive.
And, btw, I absolutely do think your behavior has been that of a peace-keeper. I think your attitude makes real improvement far more possible here, if we can keep the haters from both sides from tearing each others arms off.
This is to all you “free staters” that are giving Sam a hard time: Sam is doing the work …he is putting his money where his mouth is.
I can see there is a lot of mouths here but are they doing the foot work for LIBERTY like Sam is DOING!?
Or
Are you all just sniping at someone,like sam, who IS putting his ass on the f^%$#ing line………. for liberty
you all should have his god damned back
Instead of tearing down someone who has the cahones to DO STUFF .
Paul,
I agree…that’s why the facebook group “Free Keene From the Free-Keene Stigma” was created.
Unfortunately, this incident was kind of the catalyst for a lot of things that have been happening, and will hopefully continue to happen in the future. I think a lot of the focus *has* shifted off of the initial hype of the situation, and onto the more important issues. However, Ian decided it was prudent to mention some things that James wished to remain private (so as to *not* perpetuate this situation publicly) and I think it is important to make sure both sides are being represented equally, which is why I have returned to this forum.
Believe me, I would certainly rather they deal with this privately, but if it is going to be public, then I want to make sure everyone’s side gets heard.
Fair enough.
I can’t keep chatting here at the moment, I’ve got responsibilities, but I really want to move on, to create a discussion about nuts and bolts of positive, effective activism.
I want to come up with activism ideas that many people in your group, and many people here, can both support. I think this could be hugely beneficial, to everyone.
I forget if you said you live in the Keene area or not, but if you do, come to the City Committee Meeting today! There will be people from the facebook group there willing and hoping to start up some of these discussion!
“Perhaps James would be more understanding of our positions if he were investigated and prosecuted for the potential crime he is committing by making these demands?”
So, Bradley, would that be considered compounding as well? And I never made demands, nor threats. Perhaps the suggestion of community service wasn’t the best choice, but it was never a demand. Glad to see you guys keep confidential conversations confidential. Good to know you can be taken at your word.
Gah, I’m from Keene originally, but not in the area now. I’m hoping to be back in NH asap (before next summer).
I really wish I could be there. I hope the will of people genuinely looking for common ground prevails over the angry folks.
Actually, I’ll probably be in Keene area for a short period of time (just a few days) in early December. Also, if there’s a conference call, I could participate.
Let me know if there’s anything else I can do to support these efforts.
Canole, as sad as it is, You may be right. We, and especially those of us who preach peace, can’t force them to do what’s right. We can only step back and hope they do it willingly. There is one option available to us Peace-mongers, though:
Economic and peer pressure. If I stand outside of his shop (Which I can’t, considering I’m in Texas at the moment) and tell each person who looks to be going in for a cup of coffee that it might be a bad idea, since he won’t even enter arbitration if he’s the victim, that’s gonna hurt his profits. If every time you go in for a cup of coffee, you ask him if he’s settled his differences with Sam yet, eventually, he may do it just to shut you up. Particularly if you turn around and walk out (without buying the coffee) when he says no.
James, Please don’t judge the group by a single individual. I’ve done nothing to wrong you, but you are lumping me in as “bad people” because other people who have signed the same document as I (the FSP statement of intent) have done you wrong.
It was a cup, dude. You had a ‘confidential conversation’ over a cup? Really?
I hate this thread
Get a hobby, James
Economic and peer pressure. If I stand outside of his shop (Which I can’t, considering I’m in Texas at the moment) and tell each person who looks to be going in for a cup of coffee that it might be a bad idea, since he won’t even enter arbitration if he’s the victim, that’s gonna hurt his profits. If every time you go in for a cup of coffee, you ask him if he’s settled his differences with Sam yet, eventually, he may do it just to shut you up. Particularly if you turn around and walk out (without buying the coffee) when he says no.
While I know you’re well intentioned, I think that’d probably just make it worse. Better to try to let it go.
Ok, I really have to get to work now.
Paul,
If you haven’t done so already, you should definitely join the facebook group! There will be updates sent from there whenever anything is planned!
Marty,
I agree with Paul. Passive aggressive acts such as that, while they may get you what they want, won’t be doing much good. If James is forced to sit down with Sam, even if he doesn’t want to, just so he can stop people from annoying his customers and staff–who have no personal involvements with the situation–he won’t be having the conversation for the right reasons, will he?
Brad, please post a gaggle of bad cop stories or a link to old French porn, or something, anything, that somebody can comment on that is not cup related!
Thanks
Lpviper,
The ‘confidential conversation’ was not regarding the cup, specifically. Again, I think it is unfortunate that Ian brought up something James spoke about with him in private, and I think it is extremely unfortunate that he did so in a way that did not inform everyone of what the entire conversation was.
I have a feeling that Ian, and Sam, don’t really want the contents of the entire conversation to be made public, but by bringing it up publicly and neglecting to relay the entirety of the situation, they may have to do just that.
Again, it is unfortunate for both parties.
It might, indeed start more trouble. But again, It’s a free country (for now), and nobody can force anybody to buy coffee from a particular merchant. (and don’t think I’m picking on James, If I knew what Sam did in the community besides filming stuff, I’d be advocating the same tactics with him).
If he uses violence or aggression to try and make me stop informing people of the kind of person they’d be supporting, he’s simply proving my point.
And I don’t think it’s passive-aggressive. It’s assertive, if anything. I don’t want to support someone who hates me simply because I love Liberty, and someone else who also loves Liberty made a bad decision on how to handle a situation.
And the Kaiser thought the Treaty of 1839 was just ‘a scrap of paper’, and we got WW I. It is not just a cup, it is what the unwanted destruction of the cup represents that is the issue. I have a cup for Brewbakers behind the seat of my truck, if I wash it out and bring it back, is that the same as restitution? There is a principle involved, be it about a cup, a toothpick, or a scrap of paper. As an object, is each worth fighting about? As a principle,they all could be. —bil
If mine were crushed, I’d turn the other cup.
Bring on the French Porn!
maybe the “Kaiser” did think etc etc etc
but this aint ww 3
tho the way some talk they would like to make it that
ya the pricipal is : Mr Callaway don’t start trouble anymore
simple as that .Sam said it in the video and that was all
Im done w this dumb thread
laters
I will ask you to refer to my previous blurb for all your answers
Marty,
My point is, this is a personal situation between Sam and James. If Sam wants to stand outside the shop and inform people that he thinks wrong was done to him, fine.
Obviously anyone else is allowed to do so as well if they wish, but is it really in the interest of ‘liberty’ to get involved with a situation that is between two individual adults?
I think it would be passive aggressive to do what you suggested because it is not really confronting the situation. Telling customers that James may or may not be a bad person, in the interest of hurting his profits (which is what you said) is involving people in a situation which doesn’t really effect them in any significant way. The purpose of these actions would be to try force James to do something he doesn’t want to do, but without actually talking to him directly (this is obviously just referring to the first part of your suggestion, not the part where you said people should ask him if he resolved the issues every time they go in).
PEACE
You make a fine point.
I never said I wouldn’t go in and ask him myself, and Honestly, I’ve got better things to do than to stand outside of a coffee shop and annoy people all day. It was an option, but I’ll agree, not the best one.
The purpose of either action would not be to force him to do anything, but to help him see that doing so would be in his best interest.
Two words: FRENCH PORN
Two more: ARMPIT HAIR
Need I say more?
But would those actions actually show that it would be in his best interest *for the right reasons*?
Sure, if people stood outside his coffee shop, or constantly berated him with questions it might *then* be in his best interest to have a conversation. But in this case the ‘interest’ he would be trying to protect would be to not have himself, or his customers annoyed with questions.
He would not be having the conversation because he suddenly decided that Sam and himself could truly benefit from it, rather he would be having it to stop people from hurting his business—something which really has nothing to do with the actual issue.
Do you see what I mean? I feel like that was a very confusing post haha.
But *why* is his business suffering? Not because I am standing out there annoying people… though certainly I’m not helping. It’s suffering because he’s shown himself to be untrustworthy by refusing arbitration. (Keep in mind that this is a tactic usually reserved for aggressors. That a victim would refuse restitution boggles my mind.)
I’m a little sleep-deprived, so I can’t explain it as well as I’d like… I could point you to some resources that more fully explain my theory of free-market justice, if you’d like.
(I should clarify… it’s not MY theory… it’s the one I use.)
No, I think his business would be suffering because people would not be respecting his choice to not engage in a conversation which he thinks is unnecessary, or would cause greater harm than good.
Don’t worry, a full blog post is forthcoming that shall enlighten you all regarding what James has been up to that he wanted kept secret. You will get to determine whether I was right or wrong for bringing you this information.
They would respect his choice not to do that, (I hope, anyway), But they would be making another choice not to associate with someone who refuses to use the voluntary justice system of arbitration. There would certainly be people who weighed a delicious cup of coffee more significant than the fact that he decided not to pursue damages… and some might find that noble. That he did it out of pure cussedness might never enter their minds.
There’s danger, too… Hoodlums, seeing that he can be bullied into submission – or at least silence – will likely come into his store and attempt to either cause damage or intimidate him. If He’s the type of person he seems to be, I would not relish being those hoodlums.
Arbitration really is the simplest way to prevent any of that. It also has the benefit of getting his cup back and maybe a few hours community service (50 seems excessive, though), for the aggression.
Ian – That really sounded Like L. Neil there for a second. Let’s hope your post has more content and less vitriol than his.
Here you go, including the audio of the James’ threatening voicemail he left me this morning.
http://freekeene.com/2010/08/25/integrity-in-a-threatening-situation/
Ian,
I think you should seriously consider that. James didn’t want the conversation to be a secret, he was just hoping he could trust you, and Sam, to be capable of resolving issues in private. He told you things in confidence which he could have easily just gone public with without even warning you. I think it would be a disservice to yourself, and disrespectful to James to betray his confidence by making private conversations public.
He did want the conversation to be secret, and I kept it that way until he showed no interested in resolving issues privately when Sam made a reasonable offer to fulfill his original demands for the replaced cup, provided a sit-down could be had.
I dishonored the agreement of privacy because at that point it was only to protect his veiled threats from being public.
His voicemail is very revealing.
Ian,
As I said on the other board: Sam damaged James’ property, He doesn’t get to set conditions on how, when, or where he will replace it.
How did you protect his veiled threats from being public, exactly?
I respected his privacy until he rejected Sam’s reasonable offer of restitution and came back with another threat. It was clear he wasn’t interested in acting like an adult, so I though everyone should know what he was up to. Now they do.
I still don’t see the reasoning behind this.
James has no obligation to sit down and talk with Sam. Sam has an obligation to replace the property he damaged.
Even if you don’t think James is acting like an adult, do you think acting childish yourself by betraying his trust is going to make him act anymore like an adult?
If you ask me, it will probably just give him more of a reason to file charges.
James is not interested in deescalating the situation as he has been given the opportunity to do.
The purpose in outing him is to show people his anti-social behavior. Also, we can’t exactly tell people about Sam’s offer of restitution without explaining why it was rejected by James.
Also, a former police officer was talking about filing charges against James, which I recommended against as that is escalation.
Outing his threatening, skulking methods is just providing information to those who are observing this situation, so they can be fully informed.
i know i said i wouldn’t comment here anymore, but i just thought of a great title for this whole episode:
2 guys 1 cup.
“James is not interested in deescalating the situation as he has been given the opportunity to do.”
Neither is Sam, either, apparently because James has given him the opportunity to replace his property and he hasn’t. Just because *you* or Sam thinks that a conversation would deescelate the situation, does not mean that that is true. It could make things worse.
If I egg your car, do I get to say “ok, I’ll replace your paint job, but only if you sit down with me and talk to me about why I egged it”? Absolutely not.
However, as of tonight, Sam and James have had a discussion. I don’t know how it went or how either feel it went, but as of now it is absolutely Sam’s responsibility to replace the cup, seeing as his ‘demands’ have been met.
I don’t see how bringing any of this into the public spotlight can be seen as anything *but* escalating the situation. It is completely hypocritical, in my opinion.
Glad to hear that cooler heads have prevailed.
FWIW, I hope that James got his cup, and a sincere, heartfelt apology. I also hope that Sam got a sincere apology as well, since Sam was not wholly to blame for the incident, and certainly not for the continued drama.
Given Sam’s recent history, which, as a distant spectator, I feel compelled to admit I do not have a clear picture of, Some community service or perhaps anger management counseling may be in order. I’m in no position to judge whether or not it is, however, and I hope that those close to Sam come to the right conclusion.
Good input Marty and from being a Keene resident I would say I have seen enough to agree with you. I feel the same way
“David and PaulO, are you even serious? Was Sam conducting the interview on public or private property? Did Heika hit my hand away? Does free speech only apply to you? Were my methods so much more obnoxious than what they have done in the past? Perhaps I should have stayed out of the shot and used a bullhorn from 2 feet away. That would have stopped the interview. I was peaceful. Obnoxious but peaceful. I showed restraint. They showed their true selves. Violent, unstable, and unable to allow others to voice their opinion. They deserve no respect from peaceful people who desire change.”
James you clearly show your intent here to disrupt the interview. Your rights end where other’s rights begin. In the video I saw you say something like “I’m going to hold this up here” referring to your cup. Sam and his interviewee say “sure go for it”, Then you proceed to wrap your arm around the interviewee and and put the cup in his face.
Do you see the difference between than and making your views be know over a bullhorn?
Post your comment below. Login in the far right column to get rid of CAPTCHA. If you want a pic to show with your comment, go get a gravatar!
Want to discuss rather than just comment? Visit the Free Keene Forum.
Supporters of FK
Recent Forum Topics- Free Minds Radio 02/05/2012 February 5, 2012
- HELP . . . Still unable to access . . . February 5, 2012
- Marijuana decrim bills up for vote February 5, 2012
- Episode 35 - Anarch-Elitism February 5, 2012
- HB 1533 -- fines for hurting legislators' feelings February 4, 2012
- HB 1494 -- "Your papers, please" February 4, 2012
- Legislation discussion? February 4, 2012
- What is the latest on Sam Dodson February 3, 2012
- Pet Doctor February 3, 2012
- Free Minds TV February 3, 2012 - EP 239 [S7E04] February 3, 2012
- Recent Forum Posts
- Re: Sorry, I misunderstood "Introduce yourself format" . . . Re-do, here we go! February 6, 2012
- Re: For the politically inclined February 6, 2012
- Re: Bearcat petition at city council meeting February 6, 2012
- Re: What is the latest on Sam Dodson February 6, 2012
- Re: What is the latest on Sam Dodson February 6, 2012
- Re: HELP . . . Still unable to access . . . February 6, 2012
- Re: Sorry, I misunderstood "Introduce yourself format" . . . Re-do, here we go! February 6, 2012
- Free Minds Radio 02/05/2012 February 5, 2012
- Re: HELP . . . Still unable to access . . . February 5, 2012
- HELP . . . Still unable to access . . . February 5, 2012