Mail-to-Jail May Be Dead, But Activism Is Alive And Well In New Hampshire: Writing To Caged Activists

Bitcoin Pizza Day 2019

Crypto users gathered at Little Zoe’s Pizza in Keene for Bitcoin Pizza Day 2019.

First of all, if you haven’t seen the raid videos from March 16th, 2021 where the FBI raided the Liberty Radio Network studio, Free Talk Live, the Bitcoin Embassy, & the Mighty Moose Mart check that out first, and then come back here when your done.

If you have it’s time to start writing. Your friends and fellow activists need you and your support during this troubling time. Oppressive thugs collectively identifying themselves as the state (federal government) have decided to take it upon themselves to use the violence of the state to achieve social and political goals that are directly diametrical to the values our community hold dear.

The state has kidnapped and caged members of our community. People who have been working for peace for years and turning this community into what it has become. The FBI and a half dozen other federal and local agencies raided and arrested our friends over the semblance of Bitcoin being illegal. In March our friends were arrested and two have been denied bail or otherwise not received bail hearings.

On March 16, 2016 Ian Freeman, Nobody (formally known as Rich Paul), Aria DiMezzo (released), Colleen Fordham (released), Renee Spinella (released), and Andrew Spinella (released) were arrested over their use of Bitcoin.

As insane as it might sound for a man looking forward to his day in court after more than 5 years of spreading the message of crypto a magistrate judge ruled on March 29th that Ian Freeman posed a flight risk and lacked ties to the community. On that notion she ruled he would remain behind bars until the conclusion of the trial.

In the case of Nobody there is still a chance of release, but efforts to obtain a proper lawyer have been slow. Between the need to raise over $200,000 (initial amount needed to get started) and numerous members of our community coming down sick this past week or so these particular things have been very slow to materialize. The good news is that 4 out of the crypto 6 have obtained lawyers. While we work to retain lawyers for everybody else (see TheCrypto6.com to help with the fundraising effort) these guys would love to hear from you.

Currently Ian Freeman and Nobody are being held at the Merrimack County jail. Each is being held separately and what one receives or is aware of the other may not be. So please do write to each individually and let them how much you value their commitment to peace and liberty.

Mailing address:

[inmates’s name]
314 Daniel Webster Hwy
Boscawen, NH 03303

No inmate number is required, just the inmates name (Nobody and Ian Freeman) at the jail’s address. Things to note: No crayon, altered paper, laminated paper, polaroids, staples, or paper clips are allowed and your mail may get rejected if any of this is true. We recommend typing your letter or writing with a black or blue pen to avoid having your mail being returned. What constitutes crayon may include colored pencil.

Be sure to number your correspondence with “Letter number #” at the top of each page as well as page # like this “Letter number 2 Page 3 of 6” so that the person you are writing to knows what order letters came in and for that matter if a letter or page doesn’t arrive in tact.

As always, assume that everything is going to be read, not all your mail may get received, and any response may not get returned to you.

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86 Comments

  1. This is amusing. You say the FBI busted the crypto6 for bitcoin. That is not true. They were busted for money laundering, misleading information to a financial institution, and the list goes on. The crypto6 were so all for bitcoin no wonder. They charged extravagant fees of 10% per transaction. All others in the USA charge 2-3% user fees. Doesn’t Ian and RNP hate banks? Yet, they had thousands of $$ in misleading bank accounts at financial institutions. Sounds like they don’t do what they preach.

    You are right, Keene NH is much better now that Ian and his cryptos are behind bars.

    These people screwed over the freekeeners, and others yet, they want you to send them more money for a lawyer. I’m sure Ian has some funds squirreled away somewhere. He can pay for his own lawyer. Aria DiMezzo and others are basically left out to hang.

    I’m sure RNP spent all his money on drugs and paraphernalia. I doubt When are you people going to wake up. This is a cult. Everything was Ian’s way or the highway. Now he intentionally took freekeene and anyone else down a dark hole.

  2. Stfu jack.. u douchebag
    good job penguin man , ?

  3. JACK

    “For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in PRISON AND YOU CAME TO ME”

    UNQUOTE
    You gonna contrary Jesus you fucking diuchbag!!!!
    oh the humanity!

  4. David Crawford – Interesting. I am not allowed to voice my opinions but you are? Yep, freekeene is floundering. You are all freaked out because you don’t have someone leading you around by the nose anymore. Are all of Ian’s properties still locked down? I suppose you idiots are meeting at the gazebo and chalking it up or did you find a dive bar or coffee house to get together?

    I should be pointed out that those who were busted were not really members of the community. Just freekeene.

    You blame the FBI and the police force. They were doing their jobs. You know, working for a living. Not getting high and acting stupid while collecting money from the government.

    So people within freekeene have gotten sick. Should I guess what it is they got? Does it start with a c and end with a d?

    It isn’t as much of a “state” thing, it’s more like a federal thing.

    What if RNP makes bail, which I seriously doubt he would hang around. He would take off. Of course he will roll over on Ian for a lighter sentence. No one is getting just probation from this one.

    Like I said dip sh*t, I will be there for that trial. All of it. Hopefully I will have buttons, t-shirts, bumper stickers, and other toys, trinkets, and trash. I’ll bet I would be able to unload everything the first day of the trial.

    Keene is making a comeback while you freekeeners are kicked to the curb.

  5. Quoting bible verses from a dip sh*t like you now that is funny. It’s way too late to make empty platitudes Maybe you should look up the commandments of the bible. You know, thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness.

    Jesus also said, Give Niro what is Niro’s and give what is to God. Sounds like again, your unending BS has fallen short.

    I an and the rest of the crypto6 are in very deep sh*t. There is no coming back from this one. I suggest you move on idiot. If things were different, I am more than willing to believe Ian would roll over on you. As of now, Ian will roll over on RNP and RNP will roll over on Ian.

    I cannot wait for that trial.

  6. i think you voice your ópinion… freely and abundantly.. don’t you?

  7. My stance is not personal… it’s not about Ian… It’s about intolerable actions taken by the state.
    And hopefully, those actions WILL NOT STAND!

  8. Now Jacks,

    Don’t you have some doctorate candidacy or drug rehab patients to attend to? 😉

    That is, only if you’re quite done freaking out and anonymously spreading falsehoods and hate.

  9. #FreeCrypto6
    #BitcoinIsNotACrime

  10. you’re not allowed at the trial.. we’ll have bouncers there to see to that!
    You said “bear false witness”….
    that’s nuts

  11. David Crawford – I am not allowed at the trial? Now that is funny. This is a trial I will be at. I can guarantee you that.

    I haven’t spread any falsehoods. Everything I know I have taken off of the real media. So more than likely, I know more than you do.

    Thank God the state did what it did. Those laws were there before Ian decided to go rogue and start laundering money and starting a crime syndicate. The state saved tax payers millions by locking up Ian and the rest of the apple dumpling gang.

    The state deserves a medal locking up that teen raping freak. I still can’t get over how many times he must have screwed you but you will still suck his dick. Of course, that will be something that may already be happening. Ian will have to learn all the convict rules. I wonder what gang he will be in? More than likely the “punked gang” Those convicts in federal prison are going to be selling Ians ass nonstop. He won’t be able to sit on a bar stool anymore. Probably the same for the rest of the crypto6,

  12. Keene, Portsmouth, Wolfeboro and Nashua are all ICLEI cities. That should be Priority One in New Hampshire; ending that shit. Liberalism is destroying this state. Agenda 2030 is being implemented. You want to be an activist, start getting active about that.

  13. Oh Jacks, you and your imagination.

  14. Great point, Jason Oberg.

    Mr. Penguin-Nobody and Mr. Freeman are not in jail for “Bitcoin”. That would be like saying that Bernie Madoff went to jail for “selling stock”. No, they are charged with serious financial crimes. Are they guilty ? I don’t know. If not, I hope that they get acquitted.

    I don’t know Mr. Freeman, but he is easily the most hated person in Keene. Why ? Not because he is a Libertarian or because of Bitcoin. No, it is because of his harassment of meter maids and other city employees, the support for legal sex between adults and children, the embrace of Chris Cantwell, the property tax scams, and the desire to secede from the United States that has turned Keene and the even the Free State Project against Mr. Freeman.

  15. “Serious financial crimes” would imply a victim. That term could apply to Bernie Madoff for defrauding and stealing from investors. Ian and the crypto6 on the other hand LITERALLY just sold bitcoin.

    The FBI spent years looking for anything to charge Ian and his friends with. Finally they went with what was already public knowledge — and Ian was quite vocal about– That Shire Free Church was used as a legal entity!

    Disagree with Ian all you want about what the definition of a church is, and I’m sure judges would agree with you, but isn’t it odd for a supposed sophisticated criminal mastermind to tell the public all his deepest secrets?

    And should someone really sit in jail for selling bitcoin and following the classic definition of “church”?

    Every public figure has fans and haters. Ian Freeman is no different. Of all the reasons you say Ian is hated in Keene, all are false except one… That is that Ian wants NH to secede…. And he definitely is not the only one in Keene and NH.

    I suggest you stop with the hating… This is for your own benefit more than anyone else’s.

  16. Jesus Christ you’re a moron, LFoD. Bernie Madoff defrauded his clients out of billions of dollars of returns from investments that he never actually put funds into. How is that even remotely comparable to exchanging USDs for virtual currency? Exchanging something of value for something else of value and charging a fee for it isn’t a “crime” by any standard of measure. The only thing the Crypto Six ran afoul of are ridiculous financial disclosure regulations that anyone with a brain recognizes as being nothing more than a demonstration of utter contempt on the government’s part regarding monetary privacy.

  17. This is all very interesting. The freekeeners are always spouting off about their oaths and rhetoric. How can you do that when you follow Ian who has ripped most of you off. What ever he said, you people followed.

    Ian has secured his own lawyer. That tells everyone he still has money. Why didn’t he secure a lawyer for RNP? Since Ian took a dullard like RNP and had him do the same crimes he did, I would think he would owe RNP a debt for doing that to him. I seriously don’t believe the freekeeners can raise that kind of money. Ian has wiped them out with high extortion fees for bitcoin.

    The freekeene clowns seem to think this is just about bitcoin. It’s not. It’s about the crypto6 manipulating user fees and setting up false bank accounts. When Ian was on probation, he lied to the probation officer about his financial situation. My God the list just goes on and on.

    ” Ian wants NH to secede…. And he definitely is not the only one in Keene and NH”. You are correct. There are about 6 of you idiots.

  18. you’re the biggest false witnesser Free Keene ever had jacks!!
    You false witnessed in the same blurb you said that in!!!
    You can thank Ian for your freedom of speech here in FREE KEENE!
    . Say thank you to ian jack!

  19. Pig Bottom-I was making an analogy because many of you keep saying that Mr. Freeman was arrested for selling Bitcoin. That simply isn’t true. It isn’t illegal to sell Bitcoin. He was charged with Money Laundering and running an Ongoing Criminal Enterprise(RICO).

    This is very similar to what happened to the Mafia in New Jersey. They made all sorts of illegal money that involved dealing drugs, gambling, robbing trucks, prostitution etc. But, they couldn’t safely spend the money on cars or houses because they had no legal income. So, they hooked up with Pizza Restaurants and would give them cash. The Pizza Restaurant would show it as sales, put the mobsters on the payroll, pay taxes and now the money is “clean”. Mr. Freeman is basically being charged with operating like the pizza restaurants…taking dirty money and converting it to “clean” Bitcoin. As I have said, I have no idea whether he is actually guilty.

  20. I can’t believe Ian was this moronic. He really thought it was a good idea to commit federal offenses? These guys have an unlimited budget of money and time. He will go to prison, and he’s going to be a lot poorer as well. Why didn’t he take any precautions when doing illegal stuff? It’s not even as if this will make him a martyr; nobody is going to be sympathetic to a guy charged with white collar financial crimes. Stupid.

  21. David Crawford – You are really off your noodle. Ian never accomplished anything with freekeene except crime. The judge is going to look at his record and cringe. Seems like old Ian the pedophile crypto stealing POS won’t be walking out of court. I feel bad for his parents. They must sit and wonder what they did wrong, I’m sure they locked themselves in their house with the shades drawn.

    The only thing I can say thank you to Ian for is the wild entertainment of these videos and his subsequent arrest and soon trial and conviction. Ian is going to be the poster boy for chapstick and knee pads. RNP will have to quit smoking and he will be someone’s buttboy. At least none of them can hunt female teenagers. That alone could be life threatening to them. People in prison will know more about them then they do of themselves.

    See you at the trial

    “Jesus loves you” can be very comforting words unless you hear them from your mexican cellmate.

    Ian should be thanking Keene for all the shit he did while living there.

  22. As I already said, LFoD, Ian ran afoul of what are mostly fictitious crimes involving financial disclosure regulations. As for the RICO violations? That’s a perfect example of just how much that legal weapon has metastasized from its original intent. Now that the Feds have run out of literal mafiosos to target, it’s now being used almost exclusively against legitimate business owners – wherever and whenever corrupt federal prosecutors and their willing accomplices in the FBI choose to target them.

    As for you’re opinion on Ian’s guilt or innocence? Cut the crap, LFoD. We know you don’t care about any of that. And none of that really matters to the Feds either. They’re applying RICO to do an end run around NH’s own requirements for due process so that they can act as prosecutor, judge, and jury in the same case. The purpose here is to make the defendants helpless so that they can issue convictions with as little effort as possible. Then they get to seize whatever assets are in play afterwards. Who’s the real mafia here?

  23. all monsuier freeman did was ignore the permission slips the government make you get.. .. he didn’t get a license to sell crypto.. that seems to be his whole infraction..
    He just sold it, to people who wanted it.. or *exchanged it..
    that’s it.
    And yes, when people do things they get something for their service..

  24. Those crimes look pretty real to me. Legitimate business owners register their business and abide by all state and federal regulations.

    I don’t think you understand that they were charged with federal crimes, and NH due process has nothing to do with this. (Why would it? The alleged crimes involve interstate commerce.) They will still receive due process in the federal system. How are the feds going to act as the jury? That doesn’t make any sense.

  25. He wasn’t “saying hey criminals I’m over here; hey drug dealers and b+e men with stolen goods, wanna exchange your money for crypto?”
    NO!
    Regular people who wanted krypto got it from his machines.
    So I guess that’s it!
    It wasn’t some criminal enterprise.
    It was people exchanging crypto for US currency; If you think that’s a horrible horrible thing…… then we Disagree
    he didn’t get a licence
    that’s the long and short of it, it seems

  26. Count 20 more or less alleges that is exactly what Ian Freeman did.

  27. “Legitimate business owners register their business and abide by all state and federal regulations.”

    Comply with all the multitude of state and federal regulations? Good luck with that. Every business fails that in one way or another, effectively making every business owner a criminal. This is by design.

    In most cases, businesses just adjust when they receive a threat or fine from thr government, and carry on. Ian and the crypto6 didn’t get that luxury. The only difference was that they were on the FBI hit list and had been for quite some time.

  28. Ian, you sure know how to piss off the feds! I am making a giant Bitcoin costume to wear to the trial. Wish me luck on handing out jury nullification pamphlets in front of the courthouse. If I get arrested, will you snuggle with me in jail?

  29. I hope “mail-to-jail” gets resurrected.

  30. “Those crimes look pretty real to me. Legitimate business owners register their business and abide by all state and federal regulations.”

    I have a bridge I’m looking to offload over in Brooklyn, gloriouszorn. Needs a little paint and some potholes filled, but I’ll sell it to ya real cheap. Ya interested?

    “I don’t think you understand that they were charged with federal crimes, and NH due process has nothing to do with this.”

    It has everything to do with this, gloriouszorn. As I pointed out earlier, the “crimes” defined under RICO are essentially fictitious, and were invented to enable the Feds to avoid the state courts.

    “They will still receive due process in the federal system.”

    No gloriouszorn, they won’t. RICO gave the Feds sweeping new powers, including the power to freeze a defendant’s assets at the time of indictment and confiscate them after conviction. Before RICO, criminal defendants were presumed innocent and faced punishment only after conviction. Now the Feds have the power to freeze the assets of entire businesses connected even indirectly with a defendant at the time of indictment, before any proof of guilt. This does not follow in any way, shape, or form the intent of due process.

    “How are the feds going to act as the jury? That doesn’t make any sense.”

    It makes perfect sense, gloriouszorn. RICO cases rarely make it to trial. Why? Because the funds that would normally be used by a defendant to hire legal representation are always frozen. Combine this with the heavy criminal penalties provided by the statute and it’s pretty obvious how easily the Feds can pressure defendants into taking plea deals, never once having to present a single shred of evidence to a jury.

  31. here’s another part i don’t like: they watched Ian for 5 years.
    And if I’m correct on this: they had to do a set up, to create a money laundering charge.
    They *created* a money laundering charge AFTER FIVE YEARS of surveillance!
    it was a business when I go into Cumberland farms they don’t say “what are you going to do with this purchase” no!
    I give him the money they give me what I want and I move on. Next!
    That was the complaint the feds had that Ian didn’t get into his customers business enough!
    And so they sent in a agent in there who started divulging his business, and my understanding Ian said ” I don’t want to know nothing about your business” “just buy them and get out of here”

  32. “Comply with all the multitude of state and federal regulations? Good luck with that. Every business fails that in one way or another, effectively making every business owner a criminal. This is by design.

    In most cases, businesses just adjust when they receive a threat or fine from thr government, and carry on. Ian and the crypto6 didn’t get that luxury. The only difference was that they were on the FBI hit list and had been for quite some time.”

    Well, there is a difference with not being in full compliance with state and federal regulations, and not being in compliance at all. One of those situations gets you a fine, and the other gets you arrested on federal charges. Ian et al seem to have chose the latter.

    If you knew you were on the FBI hitlist, why would you be so cavalier about flouting regulations?

  33. “I have a bridge I’m looking to offload over in Brooklyn, gloriouszorn. Needs a little paint and some potholes filled, but I’ll sell it to ya real cheap. Ya interested?”

    Sure thing, Mr. Parker. A bridge in Brooklyn would be really profitable. In all seriousness though, most businesses do try to abide by all state and federal regulations. Sometimes they fall short. The difference here is that Ian et al weren’t even interested in trying. That is a pretty big difference.

    “It has everything to do with this, gloriouszorn. As I pointed out earlier, the “crimes” defined under RICO are essentially fictitious, and were invented to enable the Feds to avoid the state courts.”

    Fictitious according to who? These crimes look real to me. They even have a USC number and everything. The feds also seem to think they are real, so…

    “No gloriouszorn, they won’t. RICO gave the Feds sweeping new powers, including the power to freeze a defendant’s assets at the time of indictment and confiscate them after conviction. Before RICO, criminal defendants were presumed innocent and faced punishment only after conviction. Now the Feds have the power to freeze the assets of entire businesses connected even indirectly with a defendant at the time of indictment, before any proof of guilt. This does not follow in any way, shape, or form the intent of due process.”

    I don’t think you really understand innocent until proven guilty. It means that the prosecution has the burden of proof in order to convict the charged with a crime. It doesn’t mean that the feds can’t seize assets, or hold the accused in prison until their day of court.

    The suspect will still be able to have a trial where they are judged by a jury of their peers, represented by an attorney, examine witness, and appeal after the fact. That is due process.

    “It makes perfect sense, gloriouszorn. RICO cases rarely make it to trial. Why? Because the funds that would normally be used by a defendant to hire legal representation are always frozen. Combine this with the heavy criminal penalties provided by the statute and it’s pretty obvious how easily the Feds can pressure defendants into taking plea deals, never once having to present a single shred of evidence to a jury.”

    I would argue that cases don’t make it to trial because the feds are able to come up with enough evidence that defendants know that they are screwed, and rationally take a plea deal. The frozen assets do sound like an access to justice issue, but it doesn’t mean the charges themselves are bad, or that the fed is acting as a jury. Waiving the right to a jury trial and giving a guilty plea in return for more favorable sentencing terms is the defendant’s choice. The prosecution cannot force them to do so.

  34. “here’s another part i don’t like: they watched Ian for 5 years.”

    So?

    “And if I’m correct on this: they had to do a set up, to create a money laundering charge.”

    So?

    “They *created* a money laundering charge AFTER FIVE YEARS of surveillance!”

    So?

    “it was a business when I go into Cumberland farms they don’t say “what are you going to do with this purchase” no!
    I give him the money they give me what I want and I move on. Next! ”

    Is Cumberland Farms a financial institution? If you would have told Cumberland Farms that you intended to use their products for illegal activity, do you think they would have still sold you their products?

    “That was the complaint the feds had that Ian didn’t get into his customers business enough!”

    Right, because financial institutions have additional regulations that require them to know your customer (KYC).

    “And so they sent in a agent in there who started divulging his business, and my understanding Ian said ” I don’t want to know nothing about your business” “just buy them and get out of here””

    So, it sounds like Ian knew the transaction was for illegal activity, and he went ahead and told him to make a purchase anyway. Yeah, you would be better off not telling people who you heard that from if you don’t want Ian to get convicted.

  35. “so”. so it may be entrapment…. if is at least… then being DESPERATE for illegal activity..SO desperate for it, that they themselves us to create it!
    After five long years of waiting for it they got fed up with waiting and entrapped him…
    it you think that’s another “so” .. we differ

  36. How is that entrapment?

  37. “Well, there is a difference with not being in full compliance with state and federal regulations, and not being in compliance at all. One of those situations gets you a fine, and the other gets you arrested on federal charges.”

    If that were true, the FBI would have taken crypto6 down years ago.

    “If you knew you were on the FBI hitlist, why would you be so cavalier about flouting regulations?”

    I wouldn’t. And neither did the crypto6.

  38. “It doesn’t mean that the feds can’t seize assets, or hold the accused in prison until their day of court.”

    Uh yeah due process and innocent until proven guilty does kind of mean that, even if that’s not what’s being followed today.

  39. “Fictitious according to who? These crimes look real to me. They even have a USC number and everything. The feds also seem to think they are real, so…”

    Oh, I’m sorry gloriouszorn. What I meant was that they’re fictitious to anyone with enough audacity to point out they were invented for the purposes of subverting the 4th Amendment.

    “I don’t think you really understand innocent until proven guilty. It means that the prosecution has the burden of proof in order to convict the charged with a crime. It doesn’t mean that the feds can’t seize assets, or hold the accused in prison until their day of court.”

    Hmm. Too bad there wasn’t a catchy Schoolhouse Rock song to getcha caught up with the rest of us about this sort of thing, huh? Anyway, outside of the Prohibition Era, asset seizures were traditionally off limits to the Feds. RICO changed all that, allowing the Feds to seize entire businesses connected even indirectly with a defendant at the time of indictment. Take special note of the word “indirectly.” See the problem, gz?

    “The suspect will still be able to have a trial where they are judged by a jury of their peers, represented by an attorney, examine witness, and appeal after the fact. That is due process.”

    Thing is, RICO creates an unfair advantage in favor of the state meaning those things never actually take place. That’s not justice under traditional notions of American jurisprudence, gz.

    “I would argue that cases don’t make it to trial because the feds are able to come up with enough evidence that defendants know that they are screwed, and rationally take a plea deal.”

    Being screwed by an ambitious prosecutor who’s overcharging you to create additional leverage for a plea deal and actually being guilty of the crimes you’re being accused of are two entirely different things, gz.

    “The frozen assets do sound like an access to justice issue, but it doesn’t mean the charges themselves are bad, or that the fed is acting as a jury.”

    It’s the primary issue. That’s why RICO defendants often take plea deals. Can’t have a jury of your peers if no trial takes place, right?

    “Waiving the right to a jury trial and giving a guilty plea in return for more favorable sentencing terms is the defendant’s choice. The prosecution cannot force them to do so.”

    Freezing a defendant’s assets keeps a defendant from affording expensive legal counsel. You don’t think that forces a defendant to make deals they’d otherwise refuse? You sure you don’t want to buy that bridge, gz? It’s brand new and it’s only been dropped once.

  40. idk the elements of the crime of entrapment of if the are there.
    That’s for court.
    *But I’d prefer law enforcement find crimes rather than create them!
    If you disagree with that, you are in the small minority

  41. After FIVE YEARS..
    Why did they need to do a set up for the “money laundering” charge?

    If he was really guilty of that charge, five years should to be enough time
    to find one without creating one

  42. “If that were true, the FBI would have taken crypto6 down years ago.”

    I guess we’ll see how the case turns out then. There is no requirement for an investigation to wrap up within a certain timeframe.

    “I wouldn’t. And neither did the crypto6.”

    That seems patently false, seeing how they are all facing federal charges for violating federal law.

  43. “Uh yeah due process and innocent until proven guilty does kind of mean that, even if that’s not what’s being followed today.”

    No, it really doesn’t. The feds can seize assets and hold a suspect for arrest if they can show probable cause that a crime has occurred. Showing the court evidence of probable cause is the due process. Now, to keep the assets and/or keep the suspect in jail requires a conviction through a guilty plea or a guilty verdict in trial.

    How do you think the judicial system works?

  44. “Hmm. Too bad there wasn’t a catchy Schoolhouse Rock song to getcha caught up with the rest of us about this sort of thing, huh? Anyway, outside of the Prohibition Era, asset seizures were traditionally off limits to the Feds. RICO changed all that, allowing the Feds to seize entire businesses connected even indirectly with a defendant at the time of indictment. Take special note of the word “indirectly.” See the problem, gz?”

    No, I don’t. Sure, RICO expanded the powers of the executive branch. I’m not sure what the problem is here.

    “Thing is, RICO creates an unfair advantage in favor of the state meaning those things never actually take place. That’s not justice under traditional notions of American jurisprudence, gz.”

    How? Are you saying that Ian et al won’t have a trial if they want one?

    “Being screwed by an ambitious prosecutor who’s overcharging you to create additional leverage for a plea deal and actually being guilty of the crimes you’re being accused of are two entirely different things, gz.”

    A prosecutor will still have to prove any and all charges. It is still your choice to plea to a lesser charge.

    “It’s the primary issue. That’s why RICO defendants often take plea deals. Can’t have a jury of your peers if no trial takes place, right?”

    It does sound like an issue, I’ll give you that. The feds should only be seizing assets that are alleged to be the product of the criminal allegations. I’m not convinced that’s entirely why RICO defendants take plea deals, though. Ian appears to have had no problem getting an attorney.

    “Freezing a defendant’s assets keeps a defendant from affording expensive legal counsel. You don’t think that forces a defendant to make deals they’d otherwise refuse? You sure you don’t want to buy that bridge, gz? It’s brand new and it’s only been dropped once.”

    Let’s put aside Ian et al for a moment, and talk theoretical.

    Do you think a bank robber should be able to hire an attorney with the proceedings from the robbery? Or a phone scammer from the money in your grandma’s bank account? Can we generally agree that it is not their money to spend, even if they have yet to be convicted? That a person doesn’t own assets that are a product of a crime?

    Then apply that logic to Ian et al. They allegedly got that money from violating a bunch of federal laws. Why should they be able to use those proceeds for their benefit?

  45. you could say it’s peoples choice to have a trial. But its very coercive. And they make it that way. Coercion isnt justice, coercion is a crime.
    And piling on the charges is part of that coercion.
    I think you did a rationale or justification for trumped up charges.
    So what if they have to prove them!
    If they are just there to be coercive and scare the shit out of people they shouldnt be there

  46. “No, it really doesn’t. The feds can seize assets and hold a suspect for arrest if they can show probable cause that a crime has occurred.”

    That’s the theory, anyway. In practice, isn’t it largely determined by claims made about you before a judge by the same group of people who arrested you. If that’s the Fourth Amendment at work, then you can keep it.

    “Now, to keep the assets and/or keep the suspect in jail requires a conviction through a guilty plea or a guilty verdict in trial.

    How do you think the judicial system works?”

    This is often not the case. See property forfeiture law.

  47. One other thing that state has (that interestingly, Biden said, at one point, that he wanted to change and make more even):
    The state has unlimited resources.
    Biden said he wanted to make that more even.
    He use to be a public defender.
    The state doesn’t have to worry about cash expenditures like defendants have to.

  48. “[…] RICO expanded the powers of the executive branch. I’m not sure what the problem is here. […]”

    Uh huh. Got it, gz. You’re one of those “the Constitution is just a piece of paper kind of guys.” Pointing out all the stumbling blocks that arise because of your way of looking at things would be lost on you. So I’ll just move on to your theoreticals, ok?

    “Do you think a bank robber should be able to hire an attorney with the proceedings from the robbery? Or a phone scammer from the money in your grandma’s bank account? Can we generally agree that it is not their money to spend, even if they have yet to be convicted? That a person doesn’t own assets that are a product of a crime?”

    No, I don’t agree. Because as you’ve said, these “theoretical” criminals have yet to be convicted. No conviction, no crime. That’s the standard, right? So restitution, if any, comes after a guilty verdict. Not before. And any asset seizures made “just in case” are clearly a violation of due process. Hmm. I’m starting to think that it’s you who doesn’t really understand the notion of innocence until proven guilty. That’s weird twist, huh?

    Oh, and it should be pointed out that Ian never stole any money from anyone. He operated a crypto exchange business and is accused of running afoul of federal financial disclosure regulations. So any assets frozen or seized by the Feds already belonged to Ian in the first place. Big difference, don’t you think?

  49. “That’s the theory, anyway. In practice, isn’t it largely determined by claims made about you before a judge by the same group of people who arrested you. If that’s the Fourth Amendment at work, then you can keep it.”

    That’s how the fourth amendment is written. The prosecution is required to show probable cause to the judge, and they did in this case. Therefore, the arrest and seizure of property is valid until the court proceedings conclude in one way or another. What is your interpretation of how this is supposed to work?

    “This is often not the case. See property forfeiture law.”

    Federal property forfeiture requires that a defendant be convicted of a crime and that the identified property was involved in criminal activity. While there are property forfeiture abuses, (I would personally like to see the government pay all costs if they lose) the concept of property forfeiture makes sense.

  50. “Uh huh. Got it, gz. You’re one of those “the Constitution is just a piece of paper kind of guys.” Pointing out all the stumbling blocks that arise because of your way of looking at things would be lost on you. So I’ll just move on to your theoreticals, ok?”

    I think the constitution often doesn’t say what people thinks it says. Also, it is a very broad satellite view of how the government works. The specifics of how the federal government runs are fleshed out in documents such as the United States Codes as well as the precedents set by the judicial system.

    “No, I don’t agree. Because as you’ve said, these “theoretical” criminals have yet to be convicted. No conviction, no crime. That’s the standard, right? So restitution, if any, comes after a guilty verdict. Not before. And any asset seizures made “just in case” are clearly a violation of due process. Hmm. I’m starting to think that it’s you who doesn’t really understand the notion of innocence until proven guilty. That’s weird twist, huh?”

    The Constitution, and even the preceding common law, has never required a conviction prior to arrest and seizure of assets. How would that even work?

    “Oh, and it should be pointed out that Ian never stole any money from anyone. He operated a crypto exchange business and is accused of running afoul of federal financial disclosure regulations. So any assets frozen or seized by the Feds already belonged to Ian in the first place. Big difference, don’t you think?”

    You don’t have to steal money to have illicit gains. Off of the top of my head, selling snake oil, usury, charging higher fees than allowed by regulatory bodies, and taking a cut of illegal goods or services to make transaction seem legitimate (aka money laundering) all count.

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