Potential FSP Movers to Keene Threatened

Bile,

Again, please, even just ONE example of the movement bringing about a change in the way the Keene City government does business that has had a tangible, positive effect on the lives of even a large minority of Keene's citizens.

The reason I keep driving this point home is that I think most people on this site are much more interested in gaining personal attention and enjoying a sense of community with other like-minded people. If the people here were serious, they'd be seeking to become truly involved in processes that do indeed have a real-world effect on people's actual lives (whether that effect is achieved by dismantling government, expanding it, or something in between). Getting something done to improve the lives of Keene's citizens would be the measure of success, as opposed to simply being noticed (and please, this idea that "the more attention we get, the larger our movement will become, and THEN we'll be able to do something" is a self-serving cop-out, and an adolescent way of avoiding accountability; all of us are great within the context of some hope-fueled view of the essentially unknowable future). The difficulty is, once you start working in that realm, you tend to forfeit your spot in the peanut gallery and open yourself up to judgement and scrutiny.

Why not run for city council? Or for the School Board? Put yourself and your ideas to the test. I believe that people are inherently decent, and when they are presented with reasonable, whole ideas, most will respond positively. I don't think that having an army of like-minded people present to overwhelm the political influence of others is necessary to make a difference.

AnAmazedReader: Question why is your answer always working in the system?

If you look at the venom on the sentinel article comments there seems to be a lot of people whom aren’t open/reasonable to the ideas of freedom/liberty.

It seems since nothing was changed before the FSP activists started trying to change things I would say many people are happy with the immoral government were forced to fund and deal with.

(Thank you again Zeus!)

Comment by Zeus

April 22, 2009 @ 10:24 am

I can’t wait to hear Dartmouth’s smarmy response, oh I bet it’s going to hit scrumpdillyumptious on the Smarm-O-Meter and just ooze with self-important peacockery…

Dartmouth????

1. Calling soming a copout is not an argument. 2. Its not a copout. Its the truth. Why don't you look into the number of Keene residents over the past 4 years and see how many of them where related to the FSP. That number will be less than 40 I'd guess. Now how many people are there who are against what the FSP stands for? My guess its most of those in the Keene government and a reasonable number of the residents. So from any practical perspective… How is it that they could enact anything of scale? There are trash pickups. Some have volunteered at the community kitchen. The parking Robin Hood. Some work on a state level with the NHLA. There are plans as I understand for some to run in the next elections for local office. Some have started businesses. Some volunteer on local fire departments. As I have said before… Only very recently has any sizable amount of activists actually lived in the Keene area and many of them oppose working with or within the system which they morally oppose and instead perform civil disobedience. If you don't find that effective fine… argue that. What has been accomplished in such a short time in a single town in not a valid measurement of the the general movement. One which has just started.

As for myself. I am not opposed to utilizing all nonviolent means to liberty and that includes running for and holding offices in government. I don't live in Keene, or NH for that matter so I am unable to run for office there (I suspect.) I can't run locally for school board because the laws don't allow individuals without children in government school to run. I did not run for other local office in the last election because I was planning on moving shortly. However I am a director of the local LP and we run candidates when we can. I help organize outreach, OPH booths, rallies, maintain websites, etc. Just today I offered to do volunteer work for the city of Keene in order to save them money and was denied.

They are a part of the community. They are contributing. Their contributions and effects will continue to increase as their numbers increase.

And again. Would you answer my previous questions?

"I don’t live in Keene, or NH for that matter"

Go home you fuckin jerkoff

I think people in the greater KEENE area…who live in KEENE…or maybe grew up in KEENE…might question why someone who is not a resident of said town is speaking on its behalf…and may question how they can prevent this non resident from affecting the town they were essentialy raised in

it isnt even "your state" yet!

what?

You don't know if I live here or not. I'm not the guy you quoted earlier who said "“I don’t live in Keene, or NH for that matter”. That was someone else entirely.

Whether I'm in Keene now or moving to Keene later doesn't change the fact that you're using aggression and force against peaceful people. What exactly are you afraid we're going to do to Keene that will affect it negatively? We only seek positive change.

Tell you what, we'll take me out of the situation entirely and make it even easier for you to stop using violence, theft and coercion on peaceful people:

Start with my friend, Sam. I'll bet if you can stop doing it to him, you could break the addiction entirely.

Comment by Zeus

April 22, 2009 @ 4:47 pm

Dartmouth????

“Ann” was suspected of being some smug (male) jackball from Dartmouth before claiming the name of “Ann”.

I'm a smug (male) jackball from Dartmouth (years ago). You got a problem with that?

BTW DC has had female students since 1972.

A few quick points:

I think it is creepy to be investigating the ip addresses of people who post on this site or any other site. Maybe I should refrain from posting from my office. There is a web site in my area that constantly checks the ips of posters. He made a big deal out of who my employer is.

As I said in another thread I think a quick comment has been blown way out of proportion. The responses here remind me of another site in my area where there are official enemies, these being the people who are involved in a particular town government. Really Nixonian (dating myself). If anybody posts the least dissent from the majority view, it is not accepted that it could be an ordinary citizen, it has to be one of the official enemies posing as an unaffiliated citizen.

Regarding comparisons with MLK etc., what strikes me as a distinction of your movement is that you don't seem to distinguish between the judicial system and the other branches of government, whereas other movements, particularly the American civil rights movement, relied on the judicial system to make progress.

yes or no…have you ever stepped foot in Keene?

I’ve been booked for 24 hours in a New York City jail…step off with your nonsense about his enviroment!

I known for a fact that jail is comparably plush in terms of country wide conditions!

I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying that because it's a nice cage, it's okay to deprive him of his freedom?

And please could you clear this up? Have you ever even been near NH?

"And does not knowing why he chose to fast absolve his captors from denying him his rights, kidnapping him and putting him in a cage?”

No, this makes him pointless

your account of his experience in jail compared to his.

Please never step foot in NH

Please never step foot in NH

Too late for that. And sorry to say but many, many more activists are coming to NH, especially Keene.

Waste our time

Then stop aggressing against us and wasting ours.

JayDee, he doesn't even seem to realize that many activists are native to New Hampshire if not Keene.

And he refuses to reveal what he's so afraid of. If they'd just stop their violence, everything would be copacetic.

JayDee, he doesn’t even seem to realize that many activists are native to New Hampshire if not Keene.

Hea, what do I know. I'm nowhere near there.. yet. hahaha

I help administer a community web site. I’m quite aware of how much information on posters is available to admins with a single click. I clicked once and was shocked by the invasion of privacy (IMHO). Yes, I know it is public information. On our site the admins each have two logins, one that we use to post our own opinions with no more privileges than any other member, and one with all the powers that we use only when necessary. We don’t investigate people just because we don’t like what they are saying. In this case on FreeKeene.com, nobody was “threatened” by the comment, contrary to the title of this discussion.

Well I'm glad your up to speed with technology. I'm sure then you are well aware that it's not an invasion of privacy. This site is someone's private property and they have a right to know who is connecting to it, and the individual was not personally named. (as they may have more information than was disclosed.) Informing others that bureaucrats at the City of Keene are anonymously issuing threats to others is something I find interesting and news worthy.

If a message like this was posted physically on someones mailbox or a community bulletin board in a supermarket, and it was discovered that it was written on City of Keen stationary then it would be a similar case as this. They have a right to report it.

Also it is *you* not them who voluntarily started the connection.. if you don't want your connection information logged by web servers on this site and others (because every web server logs connections) than it's real simple. Don't browse this or any site on the internet for that matter. IP's are always logged.

They even tell you free and clear (just like every other reputable site does) what information they collect, it took me two seconds to find it. http://www.homelandstupidity.us/policies/

+1 Josh, from a Keene native who lived there for 18 years. !!!, is that good enough to allow me to stand for ideas I believe in, and can we discuss those ideas now, or do I need to dig up my grandparents' birth certificates?

Hey I was wondering if someone could tell me why Sam and others, if I am mistaken, decided to videotape in the lobby.

A) That's where the action was and B) the Gestapo wouldn't let them film in the courtroom where another friend was being arraigned and C) because the bureaucrats often claim that there are two kinds of property: Public and Private.

We all know what Private Property is: Someone owns it. But what's this "Public" Property thing they speak of?

Well, according to most bureaucrats, it's property owned by *everyone* and therefore, *anyone* can use it.

The lobby used by Sam and the others was supposed to fall under this definition so they reasonably assumed they could film in the lobby since they weren't allowed to in the courtroom (despite state law urging that it be allowed in all but the most extreme circumstances) — which is also supposed to be public!

But you know, it turns out that this definition is often bogus and this group calling itself "government" actually claims private ownership over that property. So long as you don't get them too riled up by being excessively free and all, they might let you use it — so long as you follow a whole bunch of stipulations that they arbitrarily make up.

What kind of court was it?

It was a "District Court".

Were there non-government people being videotaped?

I don't know, maybe someone else can answer that. What I do know is that I've never known a liberty activist that would refuse a polite request from another peaceful human being not to film them though.

I know if I was anywhere, including on public property, I wouldn’t want to be videotaped by anyone.

And if I were filming and you told me that, I'd respect your wishes.

So why tape in the lobby? I can definitely see wanting to tape the judge or a trial though. There’s nothing like fascist TV.

I think it all starts with this definition of Public Property the bureaucrats like to bandy about. Apparently, it only means one thing when you obey them and means the complete opposite when you don't.

The courtroom was supposed to be Public but they were prevented from filming there. So they were forced to stay in the lobby… and they were told the definition of Public had changed there as well and they had to leave.

Of course, this flip-flopping with definitions and whatnot didn't sit well with Sam and when Lance, the Court Security Guy told him that the piece of paper on the wall was a lawful order banning cameras on the property (whichever kind it was, they seem to change their minds every 5 seconds), Sam called him on the fact that the document was not signed, a requirement for it to be considered a "lawful order".

They didn't much like him challenging their authority to they decided to capture him and put him in a cage to teach him a lesson.

And the rest is history.

I don't live in NH either, I live in Michigan. That said, I support the assertions of individual rights made by inhabitants of Keene and NH at large. The existence of these rights is manifest, they are only not in force when aggressors are violating them.

So I don't live in Keene or in NH, never have, so I have no interest in anything involved with you, right? Wrong. You know the big paint chip selection center at your local Home Depot store (in Keene)? Myself and my crew built that thing. Our lives touch each other in a myriad of ways with little regard to governmental lines in the sand. To ignore the opinions of those who might bring services to your economy remotely or pass through for a time and utilize the services your local economy offers is to be a bit short sighted, in my opinion.

If the Free State Project succeeds, it will be a victory for the preservation of the liberty of all individuals, even those of you who cling to the bosom of government so tightly. If it's too scary, you also have the right to leave, or to set up a government of your own. What you don't have the right to do is to force others to participate in it.

Thanks to all who participate here. Freedom lovers and dissenters both. Your arguments help me to clarify my own presentations of the ideas of liberty where I live. And yes, I disagree with the government supporters. But I have hope that they can be reformed.

Thanks

Andy in Michigan

Bile, you're echoing JayDee, not I — although I would have agreed as well. But, credit where credit is due, it was JayDee and Curt who had the most recent posts discussing IP Addresses.