Liberty Activists Call WKBK’s “Talkback” 2009-09-05

"I'm sorry Sam, you were making sense on a real issue, so we're getting frantic signals that we have some lunatic on the line that we are going to let ramble forever to waste airtime. We can't let our show be a tool for showing the inconsistencies in the system."

Then they go into personal stories about 'public service'. "Its so great to be a council-person"

She said she serves government like some people talk about how they serve god.

Then they show their lust for power by the way they say they "looove it" with evil cackling like a mad scientist from a horror movie.

I think most sociopaths and psychopaths are attracted to government. They lust for the power and money that working in the government brings.

People that see themselves as purveyors of truth, justice and fairness are in one percentile of government employees.

They are only sorry that they are caught when they are found of wrong doing. Take for instance the commanding officer and the cop that arrested the topless woman. They knew no law was being broken and no one from the government in Keene has offered an apology for violating her and placing her in a cage when she had done nothing wrong.

It's business as usual for them, abuse of power happens all the time, they see no need to apologize for the things they do.

So you are saying that the Cop that arrested Cassidy is a good person that gave in to temporary psychosis?

I think he did it because he gets a steady paycheck for bullying people. That pig will do what ever the politicians tell him to do, even kidnap and cage women.

I don't think the Cop's psychosis is temporary.

How do you propose to go about getting them to stop without being confrontational?

You have to tell them what they are doing is wrong. It's not okay to kidnap women (or anyone else) who have not hurt anyone or anything.

It’s far too easy to dehumanize and ignore someone shouting at you and calling you a Nazi or a thug: While you receive a pay check for dehumanizing and abusing people for a career.

I Listened to the cop that busted Cassidy on the police radio scanner too, I could hear the conflict within him as he tried to shift the decision. — In the end he decided to violate the woman for the money.

No one is forcing him to work for police state, he can quit his job and make an honest living at any time.

So you are saying that the Cop that arrested Cassidy is a good person that gave in to temporary psychosis?

No. I'm saying he probably believes himself to be a good person because he doesn't completely recognize his actions are unjust.

I think he did it because he gets a steady paycheck for bullying people. That pig will do what ever the politicians tell him to do, even kidnap and cage women.

And, as we've seen time and time again, many cops do exactly that. That doesn't mean they all are, which is my main contention here. It seems like you want to neatly package them up under a single umbrella and assume they all know what they do is unjust and that they know its unjust. That's simply not how people function cognitively.

I don’t think the Cop’s psychosis is temporary.

We won't know until he a) learns what he's doing is wrong and why and b) makes a choice whether to keep doing it or to stop. Were he not part of a gang that claims a legitimate use on force, there would be an alternative to this which is c) someone makes him stop. I do not recommend pursuing that option through violent means and doing so legally is often a waste of time.

How do you propose to go about getting them to stop without being confrontational?

Attempt to introduce them to the philosophy of liberty first. Reach out and educate. Follow Sam's path of peace and compassion. If that doesn't work or their violence has transcended such an attempt, then try other methods.

Even statists get things right from time to time and one of them, long ago, once said "Speak softly and carry a big stick." My entire message here, which you appear to disagree with thus far, is to refrain from going to the stick first.

You have to tell them what they are doing is wrong. It’s not okay to kidnap women (or anyone else) who have not hurt anyone or anything.

Here we are in complete agreement.

While you receive a pay check for dehumanizing and abusing people for a career.

He needs to learn that first, just as you said, before he can possibly know he's doing something wrong. That's how strong the indoctrination is.

In the end he decided to violate the woman for the money.

Indeed he did. He allowed his own self-preservation to cloud his decision.

No one is forcing him to work for police state, he can quit his job and make an honest living at any time.

Only once he realizes that's what he's doing can he then make that choice.

Bottom line: I'm just stating that I believe a better tactic is to first approach them like Sam rather than Charley. If that doesn't work, if you've given them a fair shake at self-realization, then and only then should more confrontational (yet still non-violent) methods of persuasion be pursued.

"What we've got here is… failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. " – Captain, Road Prison 36, Cool Hand Luke

Sorry I am not going to watch a guy kidnap a woman and tell him or anyone else it’s okay because he does not know any better.

Not once did I say you should "tell him or anyone else it's okay" to kidnap someone. Please do not twist my words.

He knows better, his boss knows better — He told everyone on the radio the woman had not done any thing wrong.

In this instance, yes, he recognized something wasn't quite right in what he was doing. Having no foundation to cope with that (like the philosophy of liberty) other than a couple decades of statist indoctrination, I'm not surprised.

All he and his boss know is "This is how its always been done, the authority figures tell me its okay and I'll jeopardize my job if I don't do it."

Is that an excusable defense? Of course not. It is, however, how their minds work and you would do well to recognize it instead of assuming his intentions are the same as Lex Luthor and that he and his buddies revel in their evil deeds while chewing on donuts and coffee.

Imaginary Cop 1: "Muahahah! I have caged a small female for choosing to bare her chest like a free person! I am the most evil today!"

Imaginary Cop 2:"No you aren't! I'm more evil! I caged a guy for attempted gardening! Hahahahahaha!"

Imaginary Cop 3: "I've got you both beat in my level of evilness! I once caged a guy for 58 days because he had a camera! Hahahahah! I am superior!"

While easy to imagine, people do not act like that.

Self preservation was not on the line. No one was going to kidnap or injure that dirty cop if he left Cassidy alone.

No, but his job pays his bills, puts food on his table, clothes on his kids and, if he doesn't do it, he gets fired. Obviously, to you and I, the appropriate solution is to get a different job where you aren't hurting people. Buddha called this "Right Livelihood".

Unlike me, however, you assume that this cop, like all cops in your opinion, is just another insidious goon reveling in how much pain and terror he inflicts on others. I don't think its that cut and dried simple. I say that some cops have no idea what they're doing is even wrong or how to deal with it once they do. That ignorance doesn't excuse them, but it should be taken into consideration when dealing with them. It is, in my opinion, a better strategy to be more like Sam than like Charley Hardman.

Greed was on the line he wanted a paycheck — Money at the end of the week. He was paid to kidnap a woman.

It sounds like you're just attempting to dehumanize him by imagining that he and others in his position think like Lex Luthor, reveling in their wickedness.

While I absolutely agree that he kidnapped her for a paycheck, what you refuse to acknowledge is that he is so indoctrinated that he likely doesn't see it that way.

Shouting at him and being confrontational certainly isn't likely to make him realize the error of his ways, but you handle it how you want and I'll do the same.

Who doesn’t know kidnapping is wrong?

People indoctrinated with cult words like "arrest", "public good" and "authority".

I guess cops are all just really fucking stupid. They don’t know that taking money for abusing people is wrong. They are no different than mafia hitmen.

Actually, mafia hitmen are probably better off because they acknowledge what they're doing is wrong and accept it as such. Cops and soldiers are fooled into believing (at first) that they serve the people. Later they're indoctrinated to believe they're better than the people and that the people are out to get them at every turn.

Again, because there seems to be a clarity problem when I discuss these things with you, I'm not saying that their ignorance of the harm they cause is an excuse. Like every other human being on the planet, they're far more complex than that. Dehumanizing them and painting them all as sinister villains who take joy in the misery of others is a bit simpleminded.

I guess I give them more credit than you, but until they decide to stop being so greedy and violent. I won’t have anything nice to say about them. I think they know what they are doing is wrong, but like the money better.

I can't blame you for feeling that way, but I do disgree with you. I don't think they're all like that or that their thought processes are as black and white simple as you paint them to be.

How many other cops stood by while Cassidy was kidnapped? They heard he kidnapped a woman that did nothing wrong and on the radio they did nothing.

Of course, they all belong to the same cult. Believing the same ideology and refusing to question authority is part of cultism.

Did they put her in a cage? How many people walked by a kidnapped woman and did nothing how many people assist in caging her? Did he do it alone? How many of those people are suppose to protect and serve the public, but instead they extort, kidnap and bully them?

I didn't see anyone surrounding her start whipping out some chop sockey, either. Is that what you propose they should do? Become as violent as the enforcers? And what will that accomplish besides bloodshed and tragedy?

Instead, I advocate using restraint, peace, compassion and education where possible and disobedience and non-cooperation when it isn't.

How many of those people are comfortable working with a guy that kidnapped a woman last month? (they all just must be really stupid and not know that kidnapping people is wrong.)

Being indoctrinated isn't the same thing as being stupid. Ignorant, perhaps. To even make such a inane statement reveals the underlying hatred blurring your vision on this issue.

Sorry, you can’t reach out to those people. They are a lost cause.

Some you can, most you can't. And that's what this entire discussion boils down to. You want to write them all off and become confrontational and perhaps violent with them which is exactly what some of them, the truly insidious ones, would love to happen. I, instead, advocate attempting to educate the ones you can. The Brad Jardis's of the world.

For the ones you can't, peaceful civil disobedience and non-cooperation are the strategy du jour.

Switching the discussion from how to deal with police and soldiers who have been indoctrinated into believing they're "protecting and serving" or "fighting for freedom" to the most hated government agency in America is a great way to cloud the issue, Anton.

Bravo. Your skill at chicanery is exquisite.

Who knew that arguing for peaceful methods when dealing with violent people instead of sinking to their level would be such an incendiary suggestion? You'd think I was advocating the dismemberment of kittens. I'd better let the Dalai Lama, MLK and Gandhi know they've been wrong all this time.

"Self interested people, who are unwilling to truly think honestly and logically about their assumptions and the beliefs they have been fed — and are especially unwilling to act contrarily to their perceived personal interests — or even consider ideas which would require them to do so."

Are a lost cause and should be made an example of, so that people who are willing to truly think honestly and logically about their assumptions and beliefs they have been fed can join together to oppose the monsters that think it's okay to kidnap, cage or kill people for money. and/or power.