Keene Police Shut Down Little Girl’s Limeade & Ice Cream Stand
What appeared to be the entire on-duty Keene police department was called out to threaten violence against peaceful vendors who’d set up tables at Railroad Square, including a young girl who had intended to sell limeaid and ice cream.
Keene’s enforcement agents claimed a “permit” was needed and that anyone who remained would be charged with disorderly conduct and trespassing.
Just doin’ their jobs. Protect and serve!
Comments
37 Comments on Keene Police Shut Down Little Girl’s Limeade & Ice Cream Stand
disgusting display of cowardice on the part of the KPD. Also a complete lack of understanding of what public property really is. What these douchebags do understand is using force on people to get their way.
Disgusting. I hope they someday stop bothering little girls selling lemonade and others doing equally harmful activities.
only an inhuman asshole would do something like this. Time for debate is over.
They should be real proud of themselves after today’s brave display of maintaining order.
you guys should be getting major league mental health help – do you not have anything better to do with your lives? i’m not a big fan of the Keene Police Dept. – but you are the ones looking like jerks, not them
Why? Because some people wanted to have a flea market without begging permission from their masters in the city?
you guys should be getting major league mental health help – do you not have anything better to do with your lives?
Dan,
The people here want you to be able to live like a free person in the “land of the free.” You are currently not a free person… and that needs to change.
“There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part; you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you’ve got to make it stop. And you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!”
-Mario Savio
That Keene officer, Peter, or whatever his name is, seems like a decent guy.
I think he understands that he is being thugish by screwing with you guys… I think he also understands that his job depends on it.
Peter: being a decent person to our fellow human beings is more important than a steady paycheck. I’ll be homeless before I ever serve as the instrument of violence, threats, and punishment against peaceful people again. Five years ago I would have thought that these Free Keene people are fucking crazy. Now I support them and contribute ideas. Why? Because they are decent human beings who care about other people’s freedom!!!!!!!!!
Please………. use your own moral judgment about this stuff.
Funny, I don’t force my neighbors to pay for the upkeep of my land, but somehow the “City of Keene” gets to force all of us to pay for the upkeep of what is apparently their private property.
Great quote andrew.
Yeah, I do sympathize with Peter, and I appreciate his willingness to think and discuss. The whole reason they were out there is absolutely absurd and immoral, but at least their manner is far superior to most police departments.
It really must be hard to have a job you’ve invested a lot in, and to be faced with the choice of doing what you know to be right, or keeping your job.
I bet he could keep it, though, and still choose not participate in B.S. like this. For example, he could end this by simply saying, “Ok, but make sure you don’t get in the way of the folks over there … if I get a complaint from them, I’m going to have to come back out”.
Peace officers resolve problems and protect innocents. They don’t create conflicts where none existed. I urge Peter and others to be peace officers.
“you guys should be getting major league mental health help – do you not have anything better to do with your lives?”
——————————————————
I’m curious what Dan does with his life that is so superior?
Please tell us all about your philanthropic work to improve society.
Folks were having yard sales all over town on this wonderful day. Why is having a yard sale, out of the way, in a public park any different?
I hope that little girl grows up recognizing who it was that threatened her safety and who it was that stood up to defend her.
Unlike the FreeKeene crowd, some of us (ie reasonable political folks) are actually planning on working within the system and changing state law to be clearer on who is exempt from a permit/license. Right now, it varies from town to town, and in some towns, kids selling lemonade are legal, in others not, in some legal only if doing it for a non-profit, in some legal only if under a certain number of days, etc.
If you want to stop the police from bothering little kids selling lemonade, you can work to eliminate the police and town government, like the Keene crowd, or you can work to change the law to make it legal for kids to sell lemonade as they wish anywhere in NH. To each his own, we’ll see who is more effective…
Seth,
Good people break bad laws, don’t they? 
Seth, it’d be quite possible for the police and town government to exist, but choose not to go after little girls selling lemonade. I think that was a goal of this event (apart from enjoying a nice day and trading stuff). There are lots of cases where the police choose not to enforce bad laws in certain circumstances, and I applaud them for that.
It’s not “either or”. Political involvement is great too. We’re not going to get to liberty, or substantially more liberty, using one method alone.
I don’t approve of all “Free Keene” activism, but I think this event is an outstanding idea.
Brad, yes, good people can break bad laws. In some cases, should break.
We agree on that… we disagree as to volume, methods, and many other variables in that equation. The chemistry/physics/science of pro-liberty activism is still being written. Freedom is either a wave or a particle and sometimes both, sometimes neither – Who will be our Einstein? Who will be our Heisenberg? If a liberty activist is in jail, is he alive or dead, or both at once, until he’s released? Can we measure the position and the velocity of a bill as it speeds thru the legislature, without affecting it’s outcome?
dan anchor said, “you guys should be getting major league mental health help”
Dan, would you be happier if these guys were put into an asylum and constantly drugged into a stupor, then you’d no longer have to be bothered by them? That was a favorite tactic of the USSR.
More likely you just find it easier to dismiss ideas that you aren’t accustomed to as crazy, rather than being troubled with considering them.
Suggested reading: Who are the real “crazies” in our political culture?
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/05/28/crazy
Now this is ACTIVISM GOLD.
While the 420 and open-container protests have shown how liberty has been eroded, even for petty activities which harm no one, those aren’t issues most people can readily identify with. But THIS is an issue that could attract broad sympathy and support from the community.
What if a bunch of activists came out with their kids one day to sell lemonade, ice cream, and hot dogs? Imagine the Keene Sentinel reporter showing up, just as several little girls are in tears, crying because the cops are there to shut them down.
Permits are pretty darn expensive, in addition to the principle of having to beg bureaucrats for permission to do every little thing. America was once a land where young entrepreneurs were encouraged, not squashed. This is an issue many people can sympathize with. After all, who *didn’t* sell lemonade at least once when they were kids?
How can you “work within the system” when the rules are changed at will? It’s okay to set up market in Railroad Sq. Someone there said it was okay. Then it is not okay because someone else (who had the power to use deadly force to achieve compliance) said so.
People that some of who would likely be seriously hampered caring for themselves, were denied the opportunity to make money that day. No penalties will ever be levied against the cops that shut the operations down will be collected. You can count on that even if it is later proven that the police were totally in the wrong.
Would I be wrong if I came to where you made your living, and prevented you from making any more money that day? I would, but you would not. Why is that?
Oh, that’s right, simply because it is me. In your book I have none, simply because you say I have no “rights”. You are presuming yourself to be better than me and if that is so, just what is so special about you that you should be able to do what you want and I can’t?
If you want to have an underground flea market, why not use someone’s basement? Make it “invitation-only”, so that State thugs have no reason to interfere. If anyone asks, just say “It’s a private invitation-only party.”
If you want to have an underground flea market, why not use someone’s basement? Make it “invitation-only”, so that State thugs have no reason to interfere. If anyone asks, just say “It’s a private invitation-only party.”
It isn’t an “underground flea market” simply because people didn’t feel the need to kiss some rings.
Good video. Have 20 kids, all of them have a different booth, see the SWAT team come in, kick over tables, throw 9 year olds to the ground etc. Isn’t that the truth? I think it is. I’m set in my feelings towards cops (I can’t stand them), and even though these ones were not total jerks, don’t they have actual crimes to solve? I’m sure Keene has lots of unsolved property crime, maybe even some unsolved rapes. Police should be paid by crime solved. Do the Keene police have to be revenue neutral? That means they have to give out enough tickets to cover their budget from the city.
As someone who ran a lemonade stand as a kid ( with the neighbors kids along the public thoroughfare), This is complete bullshit. I remember us being out there all day for hours going through tons and tons of lemonade. For some reason it was fun! Was it ok then because it was in close proximity to our houses? What if someone sells at the end of their private business right before the sidewalk? Is it only a crime when its in the street or public sidewalk?
More here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/63116.html
I also recently bought snocones sold by a mexican street vendor on a hot day on a probably public sidewalk just outside a shopping center. I think individuals working hard to make a buck should be supported.
I’m will Brill. I don’t endorse all Keene activism by a long shot, but this is superb.
How did this turn out, by the way? The last video was cut off.
You’re desperate enough to pull the “Poor Children” card now?
Last I heard from your radio station, obviously very low powered, so you wouldn’t have to get a license, you didn’t like the “Poor Children” card.
…Unless it fits your needs…….
If the girl had put window cleaner in the lemonade, to add flavour, you’d all think that was alright. You’ve got to be kidding me.
it’s taxpayer property…..You’re not the only one paying taxes. There are health concerns for the “Poor Children”. What if she got stung by a bee, and was allergic, and needed medical services, Do you have an ambulance to take her to the hospital, and vaccine ?
And who’s “child” did you coerce to do this?
You have taken to brainwashing “Children”? Of all the nerve!!!!!!!!!!!
This was a definite set up, shame on the lot of ya bastards.
Dennis on Sun, 8th Aug 2010 4:31 am
If the girl had put window cleaner in the lemonade, to add flavour, you’d all think that was alright. You’ve got to be kidding me.
it’s taxpayer property…..You’re not the only one paying taxes. There are health concerns for the “Poor Children”. What if she got stung by a bee, and was allergic, and needed medical services, Do you have an ambulance to take her to the hospital, and vaccine ?
And who’s “child” did you coerce to do this?
You have taken to brainwashing “Children”? Of all the nerve!!!!!!!!!!!
This was a definite set up, shame on the lot of ya bastards.
So if the girl had paid her extortion money to the gooberment, then it would have made it impossible for her to spike the lemonade with “window cleaner”? You can’t be serious. In your very weird world this permit would have magical powers and would do the following:
This same permit would keep her from being stung by bees, trampled by buffaloes, would spread magical pixie dust on her to shield her from the effects of thunderstorms.
It would also keep her from being mauled by bears, ripped off by customers, and would magically make an ambulance appear if she gets a splinter in her finger.
Your love for the state is an unrequited one, Dennis. It never had any skills to make us all safe from harm, real or imagined simply for buying a piece of paper. You don’t want to hear this Dennis because you are suffering from denial of your abuser (you know, the state) and what it has done to you.
Your abuser told you not to hang out with “Free Staters” and other liberty activists because it wants to control you. It wants to smack you around “to keep you in line”, takes your money whether you feel it belongs to you or not, and convinces you that you are not “good enough” to be or live free. It does this because you just might find someone who loves and respects you if you go outside it’s coercive control and make new friends.
Now any ordinary abuser would be easily recognized by a person who rejects violence, and thus quickly removed from their life. Yet not the government, as it must satisfy some very odd need in you to be held in such unearned high esteem.
Perhaps government satisfies your need to be pushed around and have your pockets emptied? If so, I’m feeling very fortunate to not have such violently strange needs in my life. If you don’t have the guts to free yourself from such a horrible monster, then please don’t blame us for wanting the nasty beast out of our lives.
I suppose it never occurred to you that they haven’t ever made any movies that would feature a guy like you in it. You know the guy that points a finger at people while telling them that they are bad dudes indeed, because they won’t let Godzilla eat them.
Chaz Munro
Did anyone have a chance to talk to the girl or her parents? I’m curious about their experience of the situation.
Also, would have been fun to offer to support the girl if she’s willing to ignore the law. Never too young to take a stand for liberty.
Also, would have been fun to offer to support the girl if she’s willing to ignore the law. Never too young to take a stand for liberty.
In NH the police cannot charge someone unless they’ve reached the age of 12………………. 
Anarchy.
I so wish I had your intilect! I wish I could argue the points as well as you do!! Cant waite till I move to NH!!
These cops let their bordom get the best of them. There must not be any real criminals in Keene. Hey KPD, was it worth all this attention? You are all a bunch of window lickers.
#
OVER-EDUCATED IGNORAMUS ALERT: ……………………………………………………..Seth Cohn on Sat, 7th Aug 2010 3:48 pm
Brad, yes, good people can break bad laws. In some cases, should break.
We agree on that… we disagree as to volume, methods, and many other variables in that equation. The chemistry/physics/science of pro-liberty activism is still being written. Freedom is either a wave or a particle and sometimes both, sometimes neither – Who will be our Einstein? Who will be our Heisenberg? If a liberty activist is in jail, is he alive or dead, or both at once, until he’s released? Can we measure the position and the velocity of a bill as it speeds thru the legislature, without affecting it’s outcome?
Seth Cohn, here’s my 2cents worth. Einstein was an idiot. He couldn’t wrap his head around Heisenbergs’ Uncertainty Principle. The cat, which is both ALIVE, and DEAD, is Erwin Schroedingers’ cat. Heisenbergs’ Principle, Schroedingers’ Cat. Got that? Good. Next time you want to explain something, use a referrent other than quantum/sub-atomic/high energy particle physics. And if you’re gonna go with the PHYSICS, do your homework first.
Cops in Keene are retarded.. They probally can’t do anything else.. Your wasting your time with them.. They are retarded. Don’t hassle people that are not all there and have no brain . What is the point ? . Why do you want to live in a place like that anyway ? I would hang myself if I lived in Keene. Starve the beast , don’t feed it !
I don’t have a problem with kids setting up a lemonade stand but we need to look at the facts.
1) Their is private and public property.
2) people cannot do just anything they like on public or even private property.
3) Do vendors have the right to setup on the sidewalk in front of your house?
4) Do people have the right to smelt iron ore on their front lawn?
We have laws and rules to preserve the peace, safety, and nature of residential neighborhoods – that is perfectly in keeping with sane and rational rules and laws. The business licensing law is something different.
The police officer should have said that vendor’s aren’t allowed to set up just anywhere they like, particularly in a residential neighborhood. (But I’ll turn my head for this little lemonade stand. However if anyone complains I would have to ask you to take it down).
The self-righteous libertarian should have known he did not have a legitimate case to be made other than to say “you know it’s just some kids with a small lemonade stand. Maybe you could just let it go if you don’t mind me asking”.
1) Their is private and public property.
Yes, and these folks were using public property, which I’ll remind you they were forced to pay for, in a way that didn’t harm or even inconvenience anyone else.
2) people cannot do just anything they like on public or even private property.
Well … no … of course not. You can’t harm someone else (or their property), which these folks were in no way doing.
3) Do vendors have the right to setup on the sidewalk in front of your house?
They shouldn’t really have been forced to pay for the sidewalk in the first place. But I’d say yes, as long as they leave room for other people to get by, and they don’t otherwise impinge on others.
4) Do people have the right to smelt iron ore on their front lawn?
I’m no expert on iron smelting, but it sounds like you may have a sound and/or gas pollution issue there. You don’t have a right to pollute your neighbor’s property, of course.
We have laws and rules to preserve the peace, safety, and nature of residential neighborhoods
You should know that this was railroad square. Hardly a residential neighborhood, but rather a wide open commons area often used for gatherings, vending, etc.
The business licensing law is something different.
I am glad to hear you oppose business licensing law at least.
The police officer should have said that vendor’s aren’t allowed to set up just anywhere they like, particularly in a residential neighborhood. (But I’ll turn my head for this little lemonade stand. However if anyone complains I would have to ask you to take it down).
The police officer should have left them the hell alone, considering that they weren’t bothering anyone.
The self-righteous libertarian should have known he did not have a legitimate case to be made other than to say “you know it’s just some kids with a small lemonade stand. Maybe you could just let it go if you don’t mind me asking”.
These people have a right to use the land they were forced to pay for in a peaceable and orderly way. They don’t have to beg some cop for permission.
1) Their is private and public property.
Yes, people were forced to pay taxes and I disagree with coercion and taxes as the way in which to bring about useful public infrastructure and amenities. However, allowing for a potential free-for-all on public property after the fact doesn’t make any sense – it in no way serves to address the original wrong of forced public payments.
The logic that your use would result in a nonsensical public free-for-all on public property. Some examples you might consider:
1) It becomes permissible for vending carts to be lined up in front of the entire length of a public sidewalk in front of someone’s home as long as people in general can comfortably walk by. And if the neighborhood becomes really popular, you’ll have information booths from realtors, brokers, travel agents, etc, all over a residential area.
2) A person with a place of business such as a plumbing store, coffee shop, etc, will have to deal with one or more competitors sending up vending stalls in front of the store on the public sidewalk.
3) Anyone who was forced to pay taxes has a right to set up a vendor stall not only in front of a public library but also in the middle of the library, city hall, etc, based on the logic you use.
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