Free Keene from the Free Keene Stigma
Her’s a friendly discussion Luthor and I had with the group before the bureaucrat’s meeting where they upheld their ban on the freedom to possess an open container of alcohol:
Here’s another perspective, thanks to Free Keene form the Free Keene Stigma‘s Jeff:
Comments
35 Comments on Free Keene from the Free Keene Stigma
I click on the link and there is nothing there. Is this an example of how to make a video where Sam doesn’t assault someone?
That fat commie is super annoying.
Dialog’s way way overrated. The whole idea of the Free State Project is numerical superiority, so libertarians can marginalize the socialist bureaucrats, shut them up, kick them out off office, and take them off the dole. Nothin’ friendly or neighborly about it.
I bet that commie is some kind of “teacher” crook, in the public skoolz. “Oh, the community!” Sorry bro, free staters don’t wanna be slaves in your worker’s paradise, and NH has been selected for a little “de-community-ization.”
Outstanding conversation.
It does seem like the one gentleman can’t bring himself to support any civil disobedience — even positive civil disobedience, like feeding the homeless. I encourage him to reconsider that position — many of the best changes in our country, in the past, have occurred in large part because civil disobedience movements.
I agree with most of what the FKFTFKS folks say here, though. It’s easy to get press with negativity — but positivity is much more constructive. In the long term, it’s much more important to connect with the community than to gain national press.
I think the unlicensed community flea market on railroad square is a positive example of civil disobedience. I’d love to see more events like that. If folks want to do civil disobedience against open container laws, I suggest choosing a park with a large grassy area, away from a lot of foot traffic, especially kids (in back of robin hood park, perhaps?), and peaceably, quietly having a picnic, with sandwiches, and one glass of wine or beer. Tape it, of course.
In either of these events, if police show up to shut it down, either comply, or quietly refuse and choose to get arrested. Talking calmly and reasonably with police about why you believe what they’re doing is wrong is great, but shouting is not.
I wonder, what do FKFTFKS folks think of these two suggestions?
Wow! Imagine how powerful the message of the Free Keene Movement could have been had they appealed to positive activists like Jeff and Ann instead of to kids looking for any excuse to shun authority by smoking pot and drinking in public.
could have been
It still can. I’m very encourage by this, I think this is an excellent opportunity for the FK movement going forward to be reformed into something far more positive and far more effective.
This kind of real dialogue is vital, it’s long overdue.
I think it’s funny how these non-libertarian, non-activists are telling the free keene people how to do their job. Sure, libertarian activists aren’t professionals, but we’re trying, unlike most of the people who criticize us.
When I get to New Hampshire I don’t intend on attending too many rallies. I don’t like being around large groups. You want to know what my form of activism is? It will be driving without a license as I do here in California, and operating an underground anarchist arbitration enterprise…. WHOOOOPDY DOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
You want to know how much press that’s going to get? ZERO!!!! Believe me, I’d love to get a ton of press out of those things, but it’s not going to happen. Instead, 12 people getting arrested protesting bad laws gets publicity. Ask the mainstream media why that is.
But it’s nice that they are coming out to discuss issues. I firmly believe that all of those individuals will one day see the state for the criminal organization it really is, then they will understand why the free keeners do what they do.
Seth,
No one is telling anyone how to do their job. We understand that you (or whoever) are trying, is there anything wrong with the community giving feedback on how those efforts are going?
P.S.
Can I just point out how awesome the screenshot of Jeff and Luthor is on Sam’s video? Ballin.
Constructive criticism is welcome. Lord knows we can use all the help we can get. But you’ve got to understand that many of the people in keene are anarchists. Now, I know that’s a bad word to many, and it used to be a bad word to me, too, until I took the time to understand the anarcho-capitalist philosophy, then I realized that begging the government to play nice was never going to get us anywhere, and only disobedience can affect real change. Can you name one instance in history where everybody played by the rules of the status quo and revolutionary changed happened? Not me.
I think, if anything, this group of demonstrators will likely find common issues with Free Keene activists that they will want to get involved with. Good friendships will probably be made in the process.
I think one thing that hasn’t been brought up to Ann or Jeff is that by working within the system you actually give legitimacy to it. No authority can be considered legitimate when it uses force and coercion to accomplish its goals.
They still think that the system can be fixed, without realizing that it isn’t broken. The system works exactly how it’s supposed to. It keeps people bickering back and forth about the best way to solve problems without addressing that it’s wrong to force people to participate in the solutions that they don’t want to participate in.
Direct action, like going ahead and feeding the homeless within two miles of city hall, puts food in the mouths of people that are hungry. Do they really believe it is necessary to ask permission to feed a hungry person? Do they really think that because some bureaucrat says they can’t do it that they should go along with it because it’s the law? That’s the indoctrination talking. Their spirits can’t be that broken. They’ll come around, eventually.
BigMike,
I think there is absolutely validity in going against the system in forms of positive CD. However, I think there is also validity in working within the system to break it down.
“Reinforce … Positive community image” — what kind of a mind-fuck is that? And any more vague?
Sounds like a bunch of brainwashed demagogues to me.
Never heard of natural laws, economics or gravity, eh?
But I better shut up before I say something inappropriate.
Outsider,
What problem exactly do you have with reinforcing a positive community image?
I think there is absolutely validity in going against the system in forms of positive CD. However, I think there is also validity in working within the system to break it down.
Agreed. Or, not even break it down, just shrink its purview. A well functioning political process being used to roll back abuse and increase freedom sounds good to me.
Actually, I think both approaches work best in conjunction with each other. Great civil disobedience efforts in history have usually resulted in changes to codified law.
Exactly, it’s a matter of tactical balance.
I think it’s funny how these non-libertarian, non-activists are telling the free keene people how to do their job. Sure, libertarian activists aren’t professionals, but we’re trying, unlike most of the people who criticize us.
I take some offense in being considered a non-activist. Though I am not necessarily a libertarian, I do consider myself an activist in many ways, specifically one of female rights. I’ve been trying very hard not to judge the members of the Free Keene movement without finding out more information, and I would respectfully ask that you not jump to conclusions based on appearances, age, or whatever it is that led you to believe that I am not an activist.
Great conversation!
I think the Stigma group has learned what FK/FSP/NHLA has practiced all along: that engaging in tribalism is utlimately fatal to all the tribes. Instead, when individuals support individuals on issues where they agree, and oppose each other on issues where they don’t, well… that’s okay!
Partisanship (another form of tribalism) is an all-or-nothing approach, where if you and I don’t agree 100%, then we act as if we disagree 100%, even though that’s almost never the case.
I hope the FK and FKFTFKS groups will both learn that lesson.
Free Keene is not a movement it is a blog.
holy_canole,
You can work inside the system to change things, I won’t waste my time.
People working outside the system got you interested in working inside the system to change things. People working “negatively” outside the system changed you.
I am curious how long you’ll work “within” the system to change things, when nothing really changes.
I am curious how you’ll react to “the system,” if you get cancer and the medication that can save your life is illegal and your doctors are forced by “the system” to make you suffer without it.
I really enjoyed the conversation. From what I experienced here in germany when talking to people about the state and how change can be accomplished and stuff it has always been a situation of like 100% disagreement from the other person. Nothing like “I encourage you to keep trying to reach your goals (by whatever means)”, but “You’re a total dumbass. People like you should be locked away.”
So I think it’s great how the FKFTFKS-people do encourage the activism of the FKers even if they disagree with some of the actions.
I personally won’t use the system to change it. The last time that did work here in Europe was when Hitler came to power. After the third reich germany was set up in a way that you cannot change things by using the means the system allows you to use.
For small changes like the open container ordinance I think it might work out to get involved within the system (though they just banned alcohol from the streets in many cities in germany in the last few years). But there are other ordinances that should be combatted by direct action – like feeding the homeless, preferrably right in front of the city hall, simply to show how ridiculous and inhumane the ban is.
So in the end I guess it has to be some kind of balance of CD/Direct Action and work within the system. The state has to be fought against on all levels. And different folks have different tactics.
But I do agree that there has to be more positive and encouraging news (if there are any – even without video footage) to show people who come here (perhaps due to seeing the “negative” news that made it to international news media) that FKers are not a bunch of lunatics.
This is perfect! The CD that has been going in Keene has caused those who disagree to reach out to the activists and their intelligent disagreement has empowered them to have real discussions regarding what is going on in their town. This is great!! The combined intellectual effort will only make things happen faster in Keene.
The Orlando folks have been discussing ideas on how best to use the Free Market to find a long term solution for the growing numbers Homeless in our town. The folks participating in the CD here are not just about breaking the law and showing off in front of the police. Once you get to hear the individual stories of these struggling people the issue becomes truly real and heartbreaking. Things are in very early stages right now.
Thank you for noticing the Orlando efforts, your activism in Keene and NH in general has certainly inspired many people down here in Orlando. It’s great that our efforts are inspiring changes in your efforts.
Here’s my piece, something I didn’t get an opportunity to say during the discussion. I agree that CD is not a bad thing, but it needs to be done in a smart, tactful way that garners positive attention from the community, so they might join in. Such as the example of feeding the homeless. I think very few people in the Orlando community demonized the group of activists doing this protest, and it brought attention to the cause.
But that isn’t enough. Things can and have to be changed from within the system. If you don’t pair CD with other methods, such as writing letters, or getting a supporter of the cause in some sort of official position, you are going to have a much harder time changing things.
I think Harvey Milk is perhaps the best example. Sure his supporters practiced civil disobedience, but they wouldnt have gotten half as far as they did had he not also worked the system. And it was hard. One of the most important things he advocated, in my eyes, was positive protest.
Definately had a nice, quick talk with Jeff and the gang; can’t wait to see those guys again.
I think there needs to be a balance between three types of activism:
1: in the system. This could be running for or supporting a candidate for political office, calling and writing letters to elected officials, etc. I feel this activism is the least effective, personally, and I do not vote but I have and will help candidates I believe in (Nick Ryder, Andrew Carroll) campaign.
2: outreach. Whether handing out FIJA fliers at the courthouse, distributing informational pamphlets at a protest, investing time at a non-profit, or just talking to people. This should always be calm, intelligent, courteous, and non argumentative. I strongly suggest NOT using a bullhorn.
3: out of the system. civil dis and agorism are similar but different. When CD is done correctly, it’s a very powerful tool in exposing the hypocrisy and force used by the system. Yelling, chanting, using anger undermines your message and make you look like the bad guy. Agorism breaks bad laws to create an alternative to government regulated markets, promotes the use of real currencies, creates jobs, and strengthens the local economy. It’s more powerful than a bailout, and unlike the stimulus it doesn’t prolong the inevitable.
And speaking of agorism, I plan to start the Flea Market up not tomorrow, but the Saturday after that. I hope the FKFTFKS folks can join us.
And I wouldn’t say the international news was all negative. I haven’t engaged in the drinking game, but it was a very creative way to silently demonstrate that there is only a perceived threat in having an open container. It was NOT disruptive until the mayor stopped the meeting and made a bigger deal of it. By lashing out like that, he showed many people the violence in the system, and probably motivated more liberty activists to move sooner.
I think all forms of CD and inside the system activism / work have their place. As such the seemingly negative CD has actually worked by stirring the pot and motivating people who were not as active in their community, which is extremely positive despite the outward appearance to some.
I think the trick is to come to an agreement that when each type of activism ends up meeting each other face to face on an issue they shake hands and do not attack each other.
There is a visual of this in the movie Braveheart … when the Scots and the Irish run toward each other, slow down and meet in the middle of the battlefield, shake hands, embrace and join forces to the total shock of the British. This same tactic will end tyranny in our day.
Just so that its clear, I’m not saying “fighting or war” will solve anything, I’m just using that visual from the movie as the example of the tactic envisioned. I think we all agree that violence begets violence. Peaceful Evolution through the non-aggression principle is the only moral way to go.
I think the local activists/politicos/ whoever ADMIRE the free staters
but they are also a small town who are like “dont come in here and change stuff or tell us what to do”
But you know WHAT! KEENE has a son THAT THEY HOLD ON HIGH and do TRIBUTE AFTER TRIBUTE FOR that did much THE SAME THING
I am talkin about Jonathan Daniels :he went to somewhere else and tried to change things AND GOT KILLED .he wasn’t ACCEPTED EITHER but we all know he was in the right
@David,
I am not from Keene and have never heard of Jonathan Daniels. Thanks to your post I looked him up and now know who he was and what he did. Thank you sir.
TJ: You’re absolutely right. The actions of the Free Keeners has had a positive effect in bringing new ideas to the table. If that’s not the free market at work, I don’t know what is.
I love the activism going on in Orlando. It was the inspiration for the flea market. I wanted to lead by example and show the change I wished to come within the Keene CD. I think Annie’s group will only add momentum to what I’m trying to accomplish.
All I heard from this group is, “this is OUR COMMUNITY,” “this is what WE believe,” “I have SOCIALISTIC values, “I think there needs to be a GROUP of people to stand up for what THEY believe in and approach it in that way,” and so on.
If the “free keene from the free staters” identified themselves as individuals and not as a collective or a community then they would not have such a problem when a “negative” light is shed on the state monopoly of violence on nonviolent people.
The freekeeners are individuals trying to stop the violent force that is known as government. I would like to add that individual freekeeners get plenty of positive news about what they are standing for. I love hearing what they are doing and fully support them in this movement!
Stay strong!
The group in Orlando came together via Campaign For Liberty and Young Americans For Liberty, many of the active people in the group are now branching out into doing their own activism, and so it begins. The ideas a flying, people are getting more and more active. We’ve had some working in local political campaigns, we have some doing regular spots on local radio shows, Civil Disobedience, Cop Watch is getting some support, FIJA outreach, we just had our 2nd Annual Liberty summit … people are hitting from all sides.
We are working on public website outlets, this is some exciting stuff more to come soon!
#
Lord Metroid on Fri, 27th Aug 2010 4:55 am
Free Keene is not a movement it is a blog.
Therefore, By the AUTHORITY VESTED in me, by virtue of my having been born in Keene, I do hereby certify, declare, and *STATE*, that henceforth, “Lord Metroid shall be deemed a full MEMBER of the FREEKEENEBLOGCOMMUNITY…We’re a MOVEMENT now, Lord Metroid, and all we’re waiting for is the “paperwork”, then we can wipe up this crap, finish the flush cycle, and watch this dirty, dirty, dirty little town swirl down the toilet of history…You’re Welcome!…(I for one, feel very ENCOURAGE, “pall”!…
KEENENATIVE, Thank you for the lulz your comment contributed.
I know this is an old post, but dealing with the feelings and needs of the native New Hampshirites is something FK and the FSP will have to deal with. Not everyone in NH is going to necessarily take state policy in the right-wing libertarian direction (at least for now). I think dialogue with the locals would be the best way to embrace others. That and charity work (that’s what us anarchists do; for example, here in Baltimore we set up community centers and do a lot to help families fight against landlords and poverty).
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