Free Keene

Peaceful Evolution

Sam’s response to “Sit Down and Shut Up”

Filed under: Obscured Truth Network, Outreach, Personal Freedom, Response, Update — SamIam at 8:45 pm on Wednesday, June 3, 2009

I’m writing in response to Keene Sentinel columnist Michael Schuman’s story titled “Will the Free Staters Please Sit Down?” I must admit, a couple of years ago, before coming to understand the message of liberty, I would have agreed with Schuman’s opinions.

Schuman’s views are consistent with what many would describe as main stream America. Unfortunately many of his ideas are based in ignorance and misunderstanding that stems from a lack of critical thinking. Like most of us, Schuman probably attended government indoctrination centers where school children are taught to stand on their X, respect authority, and do as you’re told without question.

Take a look at the pledge of allegiance. How many other countries have one? How many of you know it was written by Fancis Bellamy, a National Socialist (Nazi) flag salesman, to “instill a strong belief in the state.” Dont believe me? Look it up on the internet. You’re likely to find the same picture I did of school children doing a Roman salute – the same one Hitler’s army used – before that was changed after WWII.

Schuman’s description of a classical libertarian is severely flawed and his examples display an ignorance of private property vs. individual rights.

The article begins by describing libertarians as “a Republican who wants to smoke pot and watch porn.” What does it mean to be a Republican – or a Democrat – these days? The only difference I can discern between the two parties is how they want to take more of your money to grow government. The red/blue game is simply a distraction to keep the masses complacent while government works to extract more of your wealth to exert greater control over your life.

Classical libertarians on the other hand believe it’s wrong to initiate force or violence on others to provide a product or service. Sure government seems fair and even “necessary,” but what happens if you don’t pay their taxes?

While we’re at it, have you ever wondered how two main viewpoints (or parties) manage to represent hundreds of millions of people? How is it countries like Sweden and Switzerland have hundreds of political parties with members elected to Parliament? Could it be that campaign finance “reform” is a tool used by the two major parties to retain power while setting the bar high enough to prevent new entrants from gaining a foothold?

Many of you are probably libertarians without realizing it. Find out for yourself by taking the World’s Shortest Political Quiz at www.TheAdvocates.org/quiz.

Schuman continued with a concert example concerning a woman who remained standing despite everyone around her sitting to enjoy the concert. Libertarians believe in social ostracism, which Schuman did when he had someone ask her to tak a seat.

Schuman’s failure was likely caused by a lack of numbers. Would the result have been the same if twenty people were shouting “sit down!” instead of one person asking? The additional pressure might have changed her mind; I’ve seen it work.

Failing to get his way, Schuman then went to get the authorities (the usher), just as government trains us to snitch on our neighbors, rather than seeking to understand and resolve differences.

In the story, the woman refused to sit, saying she had a right to stand, and the usher decided there was nothing he could do. This is where Schuman concludes libertarians are selfish based on his limited understanding of rights.

If I’m invited to a friend’s house (private property) and he has a “no shoes inside” policy, do I have a “right” to wear shoes in his house? If I don’t like the policy, I won’t go over to his house, or I’ll see if I can bring a pair of slippers to wear inside.

In Schuman’s example, libertarians may advocate: petitioning the venue for a standingin/seated section; a boycott of the venue; opening your own venue, where you set the rules; requesting a refund from the venue’s management. What would Schuman’s solution involve? Perhaps he suggests a “no standing” law commanding the guns of government to punish the woman with arrest, taxpayers with enforcement costs, and the private property owner by trampling his rights and ability to provide innovative solutions to changing customer demands.

Libertarians believe in the power of a true free market to solve problems, and we understand the unintended consequences that arise from using force – government – to solve problems.

Schuman continues by comparing the Free State Project to a Christian Fundamentalist group moving to South Carolina. He left out the Mormons who moved to Salt Lake City. I’m left wondering about the political fathers and the 13% of American colonists who supported them in throwing off British rule. Would that make Mr. Schuman one of the loyalists, the 30% of the population happy with British rule? Many of them were run off to Canada.

While Schuman seemed to understand at least one aspect of the trillion dollar failure that is the war on drugs, he doesn’t seem to understand the concept of a victimless crime.

In his initial attempt to discredit this idea he repeats his earlier flawed concept with the smoking issue. Again the issue is private property. Are you a victim of second hand smoke if you voluntarily decide to patronize an establishment that allows smoking on its private property? Customers and employees are free to ostracize, patronize, or increase choice and diversity in the marketplace through competition.

Schuman then set his sights on gun control. He references what he describes as almost daily shooting sprees around the nation. What he fails to mention, and what most don’t understand is this: the most deadly cities in America – New York, D.C., LA, Chicago – also have the most restrictive gun laws. States with the least restrictive gun laws like New Hampshire and Vermont also enjoy some of the lowest crime rates. The facts show gun laws reduce safety.

In what seems like a direct attempt to discredit the messenger, Schuman implies the Free State Project is an extreme organization. In his article, he describes the New Hampshire Free Press – a local paper which publishes stories on topics including the 9/11 Truth Movement and the John Birch Society – as “one of the project’s media outlets.”

As a fellow journalist, I would expect Schuman to do some basic fact checking and investigation. Spending 5 minutes reading the FAQ section at FreeStateProject.org, and he would have understood that the Free State Project exists solely to encourage liberty activists to move to New Hampshire and get active for liberty. The FSP does not endorse any political parties, not any candidates, nor any legislation. It certainly doesn’t have any media outlets!

Here’s how the FSP works: people hear about the message of liberty and eventually the FSP; they move to New Hampshire; they learn about the various things activists are doing and they decide what they want to support. The FSP is not involved past moving.

Some liberty activists see something they want to change – like the government abrogating freedom of the press – while others come up with new ideas – like volunteering at the Community Kitchen, the monthly canned food drive, or Keene Freedom Fest, to name a few. These activists come up with a plan and the people who think it’s a good idea support it. The best ideas garner the most support. If someone is unhappy with the way things are going they splinter off and start their own group. It’s happened several times, and the liberty movement grows stronger and more diverse with each split.

It’s something a command and control, top-down organization could never accomplish. It’s also the way a true free market – most libertarians advocate – would operate. No leaders; no structure; only individuals standing for and supporting what they believe.

That brings us to Schuman’s last example, my unlawful indefinite detainment without trial for filming on public property. To begin with my last name is Dodson, not Miller, and Schuman acknowledges my identity is no secret. Had he done the slightest bit of investigation he would know that I have identified myself, with a fingerprint, as demanded by their laws. Had he reviewed the publicly available court filings, he would know the court/prosecutor team has presented no laws to the contrary. He would also know that over the last month and a half the courts have ignored most of our requests including 3 separate motions to schedule a trial.

Is that what this country was founded upon, arresting journalists critical of the state and holding them indefinitely without trial?

Schuman then points out that taxpayers have been forced to pay thousands of dollars for my detainment and asks, is this a victimless crime? Absolutely not, along with me, taxpayers are victims of an out of control judge, protected by a lifetime appointment, who’s willing to throw away as much of your money as he wants to challenge the slightest threat to his authority. This has little to do with my identity and everything to do with control.

Schuman attempts to close his story by drawing an analogy between my situation and a Peanuts comic strip in which Snoopy is described as doing something “Pretty stupid!” Gandhi said it best, “First they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” While Schuman and others may be laghing, the New Hampshire bureaucrats have started fighting.

Unfortunately, they’re fighting an idea; an idea that, thanks to press coverage on the internet, The Keene Sentinel, the Boston Globe, Fox News, and Break the Matrix, has now spread over a quarter million people, a handful of which are now planning their move to New Hampshire. Laugh all you want, and I hope you don’t mind if I join you.

SamIAm

22 Comments »

Comment by Markus

June 3, 2009 @ 10:58 pm

Sams’ words:

“taxpayers are victims of an out of control judge, protected by a lifetime appointment, who’s willing to throw away as much of your money as he wants to challenge the slightest threat to his authority. This has little to do with my identity and everything to do with control.”

I think Sam hit the nail on the head with his above words. No doubt he knows best why he’s in a cage right now and I look forward to the people of Keene seeing these government people in a clearer light in the future.

Comment by Shane

June 4, 2009 @ 2:12 am

“The facts show gun laws reduce safety.”

To be fair, you can only show a negative correlation. I think the truer explanation is that gun control is often enacted to (ineffectively) control “gun crime”. Safer jurisdictions have less stringent gun control laws because there was never a perceived need for it. I’m not aware of conclusive evidence that CCW reduces crime, but I think it is established that it doesn’t increase crime.

Ultimately, the crime and violence of any area are determined by the underlying social, economic, and political stability of an area. High firearm ownership rates will not turn a peaceful city into a war zone, and firearm proliferation will not bring peace to a troubled area. If the demand is there, people will ultimately smuggle, steal, or create by hand all the weapons they need.

Comment by DDS -- NRA Life Member

June 4, 2009 @ 8:18 am

Shane pretty much hits the nail on the head. Some people are just not prone to violence. People who are not prone to violence tend to gravitate to places that are not violent. The reverse is also true. The character of a locale reflects the character of the people who live there. You do not often see crack being sold on a clean, well lit street corner in an upscale neighborhood because crack dealers are not comfortable in that environment and the residents will not tolerate that kind of activity where they live. One of the keys to reducing the violence in America is to be found in Project Exile in Richmond, VA. People who use firearms in crimes are promptly referred to federal courts where they are frequently convicted, given long sentences and then shipped out of state to a federal prison where they serve their entire sentence without probation or parole. Richmond’s firearms violence rate plummeted as a result. The other key is in the “Broken Windows” policy put in place in New York under Rudy Guliani. Areas that are not kept up tend to collect rats, both two legged and four legged varieties. Broken windows invite trash dumping which makes an area look more tolerant of criminal activity. Require property owners to keep up their property and crime goes elsewhere. Tolerate criminal activity and you will get more criminals.

Comment by Denis Goddard

June 4, 2009 @ 12:21 pm

Shane wrote:
If the demand is there, people will ultimately smuggle, steal, or create by hand all the weapons they need.

Shane, do you understand that the underlying principle hold equally true for all products and services, whether it be alcohol, marijuana, sex, weapons, or music CDs?

Comment by Paul

June 4, 2009 @ 12:41 pm

I would not include music CDs in that list, Denis. I understand there is a lively, and legitimate debate on the issue of intellectual property, but those who do oppose it do so on the basis of their belief — right or wrong — that it is theft — a real crime. No one claims your other examples represent theft.

I say this not to get into the IP debate here, but only to note that one of those things is not like the others, and also not like guns.

Comment by Denis Goddard

June 4, 2009 @ 1:35 pm

Property is property, whether it’s my car, my gun, my CDs, or my body.

Having said that, I do not believe in “mixing messages”. The contents of the CD are entirely spoken word :)

Comment by Patriot Henry

June 4, 2009 @ 8:00 pm

“How many of you know it was written by Fancis Bellamy, a National Socialist (Nazi) flag salesman, to “instill a strong belief in the state.” Dont believe me? Look it up on the internet.”

No, I don’t believe you. Bellamy wrote the Pledge decades before the creation of the Nazi party. Look it up on the Internet.

Comment by Russell

June 5, 2009 @ 5:44 am

I agree with Sam … and now Denis’s comments

Comment by Denis Goddard

June 5, 2009 @ 9:01 am

Patriot Henry, there was National Socialism long before there was a party by that name in Germany, the same way there were Abolitionists in England long before the New Abolition Party was formally registered in the United States.

Comment by Dissident

June 5, 2009 @ 4:58 pm

In my lifetime of 40+ years, I have yet to see a newspaper, Television, or Radio mainstream news outlet that actually reports the news instead of the usual incendiary sensationalism peppered with lies, misstatements, and omissions of the actual facts on any given story.

Just today, I was watching CNN Headline News (HLN) and they were reporting on the sad news that the body of 5 year old Nevaeh (little girl who went missing a couple weeks ago) might have been found. Instantly, the talking heads went about attacking the mother for socializing with a “known convicted sex offender”. Now, what is the first thing you think of when you hear those words? Most people think Child Molester. But, that couldn’t be further from the truth. A “Sex Offender” could be an 18 year old who dated a 17 or 16 year old. It could be someone who was caught urinating in public. It could be a plethora of different charges which fall under the sex offense criteria. But, these news agencies want people to instantly react and think of a child predator. They purposefully omit facts and details like that and, a lot of times, outright lie. For instance, a woman from the John Walsh lynch mob (America’s Most Wanted), said that surrounding the river where the body was found (a rural area) within 2 miles are 150+ registered sex offenders. I checked this out online. She blatantly lied. There are barely any RESIDENCES within a 2 mile radius of the location of the body. It made me so sick that I just had to go outside for a while to cool down.

Sure, there are REAL criminals and predators out there. But, with these news outlets, they like to sell papers and get ratings by sensationalizing, twisting the truth, and outright lying. It’s sickening to me how much the once-trusted news outlets have all seemingly turned to yellow journalism to out-sleaze each other so they can sell more papers and get more ratings.

The Keene Sentinel is no different.

Not one iota.

Comment by AnAmazedReader

June 7, 2009 @ 10:02 am

I think Schuman’s article was an example of yet another person who just couldn’t help taking the bait. These folks should accept the reality that we will always have protestors, complainants, and the like. Further, their intellectual legitimacy will always vary greatly. I’m often astonished at the extent to which local politicians, law enforcement and just regular folks in the community respond so clumsily to Free Staters, the Project and the ideas they come up with. They seem to feel threatened by the FSP; this strikes me as silly because:

1. The movement is so intellectually shallow; its adherents are long on complaints but very short in terms of ideas that most people would find remotely credible for developing constructive, workable human societies. Without those ideas, the movement will join the thousands of other failed political/social movements that dot our history.

2. If I’m wrong, and the movement does indeed help create a better societal model, isn’t that all to the good?

I think Keene-ites would do well to simply remember Mark Twain’s observation about arguing with a fool, and not get so worked up about displays of arrested adolescence. Just let the attention-obsessed beast-ette fade, as it most likely will.

Ann

Comment by Ian

June 7, 2009 @ 10:26 am

I predict the opposite. The state will fall and the voluntary society will rise. It’s just a matter of time, Ann.

Tick-tock!

Comment by Zeus

June 7, 2009 @ 10:33 am

That’s the problem, Ann. The bureaucrats don’t know how to do anything but what they’re good at and the only things they’re good at are violence and coercion. So of course they don’t know how to handle Free Staters. The more they crack down and show what they’re all about, the larger the ranks will grow.

As for workable human societies, the current one’s not doing so well. Maybe… just maybe… you could let us opt out and not use violence and coercion on us? Go ahead and continue to vote and lobby each other and force each other to pay for everything under the sun, but leave those who’ve had enough alone. Is that really so much to ask? Just stop killing, kidnapping, robbing and assaulting us. It’s easy if you try.

Comment by Paul

June 7, 2009 @ 3:28 pm

It’s difficult for the bureaucrats who want to run people’s lives, Ann, because when people stand up for their rights, they only have limited choices.

For example, if someone holds an unlicensed nail painting, there really are only two options for them:

1. Crack down, and show how dictatorial and petty they really are. Most people are not going to support arresting people for happily coloring each others’ nails, because it’s absurd.

2. Let it go, and effectively make that law moot. If they don’t crack down, people gain the freedom to participate in that activity.

The reason some people express sentiments like Schuman’s is because they don’t want the obvious immorality, and absurdity pointed out. They want people to be quiet, because it is uncomfortable to them to see that many of the policies they support are really nothing more than petty tyranny over their fellow man.

It’s as if you were painting your house, and someone on the street pointed out, “It looks like the left side of your house is lighter than the right”. Instead of admitting that the house will need to be repainted, people like Schuman yell, “Shut up, shut UP”, cover their eyes, and pretend they can’t see or hear, because they don’t want to.

There are plenty of solutions which do not involve initiation violence against your peaceful neighbor. But, it might take some intellectual work to get there, and it might take reconsidering some assumptions. Some people just aren’t anxious to do that, so they’d rather plug their ears and hum.

Comment by AnAmazedReader

June 8, 2009 @ 9:47 am

Ian:
I’m not a betting gal, but I’d be more than willing to take the odds on a bet that the movement will continue to have very little broad-based impact. I know that sayings like “The state will fall and the voluntary society will rise” and “Tick-Tock” have a stimulative effect on the already-converted, but it does seem like people in the movement spend most of their time indulging in rhetorical cliche and various forms of political street theater that, while harmless, doesn’t present specific, hard alternatives to the current governmental structure(s). If you can’t answer the question “what would you do instead?” with the sort of specific detail and wisdom that would lead a majority of people to see your ideas as truly credible, my sense is that you’ll essentially fail in the marketplace of ideas. Platitudes can be thin gruel, indeed.

Zeus:
Your response seemed like a generalized, stereotyping rant, and so it was hard to take from it anything more than a sense that you were forcefully repeating a series of well-worn phrases that are so general they could mean all sorts of different things. So it occurred that it might be instructive (to me, at least) to suggest a realistic hypothetical for you to deal with; I’m thinking that your response would provide me with an opportunity to see where your thought processes are in terms of depth, realism, detail, etc. So, here goes:

In this hypothetical example, there is no road leading from Keene to Boston. Most people in the affected area think the road should be built, but a significant minority thinks it shouldn’t. Do you build the road? If so, why, and how? Who pays for the building and subsequent maintenance? Who gets to use the road?

I believe that I might find your answers instructive, Zeus. Thanks.

Paul:
I do think there are many other alternatives that are open to local people and local law-enforcement in terms of the way they react to “Free-Staters”, mostly in the area of the character of the responses. “Infractions of the law” occur all the time, and police have the discretion to overlook them, based on the circumstances in front of them. I say overlook them when you can, and if you have to address them, do so in as calm and neutral a manner as possible. Deal with the protestor in a manner similar to the way you’d deal with the town drunk; gently and efficiently. Likewise for local citizens and commentators who get so worked up by FSP members, much in the same way a “progressive” might get worked up by the latest rantings of Rush Limbaugh. Just let it go. The world is filled with disparate voices; it was ever thus.

Comment by Zeus

June 8, 2009 @ 10:13 am

In this hypothetical example, there is no road leading from Keene to Boston. Most people in the affected area think the road should be built, but a significant minority thinks it shouldn’t. Do you build the road? If so, why, and how? Who pays for the building and subsequent maintenance? Who gets to use the road?

The majority that thinks the road should be built could form a joint venture to construct and maintain the road and thus put their money where their desires are by funding it themselves?

OR maybe a business-savvy entrepreneur might raise or borrow the funds to create the road or perhaps even compete with an existing road by creating a rail or some other method of transportation.

Perhaps they’ll even choose to use cutting-edge methods that will allow the road to last much, much longer than they usually do.

Those who own the land would be good prospects for getting in on such a joint venture. Or one could offer them a fair sum for the necessary property. Unlike government, they would not be able to steal it by force. If an owner refuses to sell, then road creators are going to need to work around that.

My only desire is to remove force and coercion from the equation. The best method I can think of doing that is to create a business entity that doesn’t have a monopoly on force.

If you’d like other ideas on how the roads in a voluntaryist society might work, I highly recommend Wes Bertrand’s Complete Liberty, available in podiobook format or PDF eBook entirely free online.

Believe it or not, there have been decades of thought on these topics. These ideas aren’t coming out of the ether willy-nilly. They’re built on the philosophies of people like Ayn Rand, Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard, Linda and Morris Tannehill, Lew Rockwell and many, many others.

Comment by Paul

June 8, 2009 @ 11:05 am

Amazed,

Maybe your road would be built the same way the first highway in NH was built, which connected Portsmouth to Concord, and is now called route 4.

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=93bd9fed-91bc-415e-8080-19d044fc0dbe

It was a privately built toll road.

In fact, there were quite a few of these being built. As a percentage of GDP, the amount invested in these roads from 1790 to 1830 was greater than the total amount invested by all levels of government in the interstate highway system between 1955 and 1995. These investments produced at least 40,000 to 50,000 miles of road, and built many of the covered bridges we see today, without any government involvement at all. In fact, in New Hampshire alone, there were 51 turnpike incorporations during that period, representing more than 1/6 of all incorporations at the time.

Other ways roads could be built:

- Farmers, or loggers, etc, clear dirt roads connecting their property to a local town or highway. These roads are often quite long — providing plenty of new rural areas with road access, and locations for new houses, for those who want to live in the country.

- Land developers would need to build transportation to their new development, in order to sell homes. It’s the same reason hallways and elevators exist in condos and business rental properties.

- Business owners would want to connect to the road grid, in order to provide easy access to customers and employees.

- Private road associations, as community efforts, could join together to fund road development and maintainance.

- Some roads might be built and funded by roadside ads, rather than tolls. Others might require a subscription.

I have to go, and perhaps we can talk about this more later, but take note of what Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859), a French historian who visited the U.S., and recorded his observations, wrote regarding how our country used to work:

“If it is a question of taking a road past his property, [a man] sees at once that this
small public matter has a bearing on his greatest private interests, and there is no
need to point out to him the close connection between his private profit and the
general interest. . . . Local liberties, then, which induce a great number of
citizens to value the affection of their kindred and neighbors, bring men
constantly into contact, despite the instincts which separate them, and force them
to help one another. . . . The free institutions of the United States and the political
rights enjoyed there provide a thousand continual reminders to every citizen that
he lives in society. . . . Having no particular reason to hate others, since he is
neither their slave nor their master, the American’s heart easily inclines toward
benevolence. At first it is of necessity that men attend to the public interest,
afterward by choice. What had been calculation becomes instinct. By dint of
working for the good of his fellow citizens, he in the end acquires a habit and
taste for serving them. . . . I maintain that there is only one effective remedy
against the evils which equality may cause, and that is political liberty. (Alexis de
Tocqueville, pp. 511-13, Lawrence/Mayer edition)

Comment by Paul

June 8, 2009 @ 11:17 am

Also, in the private busness developers wanting to provide access catagory, here’s a map of Disney’s privatly built road system, which is freely used by non Disney customers travelling near the park, and includes freeways, offramps, etc.
http://www2.disney.co.uk/usa-resorts/waltdisneyworld/VII/maps/pdf/wdwmap.pdf

I think, Amazed, it may be hard to imagine roads not run by government, simply because we haven’t experienced it much. Suppose all TV and Radio were run by government, and we had never experienced anything else. No doubt we would say, “Of course TV and radio can never be private — how on earth could anyone make any money providing a service that anyone can tune into for free any time?” But, we would not have imagined the possibilities of ads, or of satellite radio and TV, which can operate by subscription. Suppose all food were provided by government. We would surely say, “Of course food distribution can never be privatized — only the rich would eat!!” but, we would not have imagined the possibility of the food kitchen, or the homeless shelter, or church based and secular charities — or the greater efficiencies in food production that we have because of competition. Any idea how much a McDonald’s hamburger would cost, if government produced it, and people were forced to buy them, no matter what? A lot more than a dollar, I can tell you that.

Many of the things we take for granted as being run by government in this country were run very sucessully privately, in the past. We only assume government must do it today, because we haven’t seen the potential of the alternatives — we haven’t seen the food kitchens, the WKBKs, and the one dollar hamburgers.

The problem is in this country, whenever there is a problem, we look to more government to solve it — despite the fact if we dig just a little, it’s usually government that caused the problem in the first place. Do we like the way the country has headed, based on this policy, with ever incresing Government in all aspects of our lives, and ever increasing debt? Has it helped our economy? Has it helped our foreign policy? Are our civil liberties more or less protected? Do we have more or less freedom, and wealth, in our finances? Do we have more or less choice in our lives?

I am just saying, let’s try the alternative, if only in certain ways, and if only in certain areas. Let’s not keep doing the same thing, hoping for a different solution.

Maybe freedom works after all :) .

Comment by Vince

June 9, 2009 @ 8:57 pm

Hey Sam, if I didn’t hear your story, I never would have had the mind or balls to do this…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oelw8R-6_YM

Comment by AnAmazedReader

June 10, 2009 @ 9:41 am

Paul and Zeus,

Although I’m writing “on the run”, I wanted to quickly acknowledge the efforts you put into writing your posts. Quickly, I still think that most of the analogies you raise are flawed, for a couple of reasons:

1. Comparing the scope of a road system needed to accommodate the needs of our population in 2009 with that of the era running from 1790 to 1830 is analogous to comparing a watermelon to a peanut. Building a Keene to Boston road in 2009 would be an exponentially more complicated matter than doing so in (for example) 1810, and it is this much greater level of complication (in the form of many more property owners with many disparate interests) that defines the core of the question.

2. One line that stood out for me was:

“We only assume government must do it today, because we haven’t seen the potential of the alternatives — we haven’t seen the food kitchens, the WKBKs, and the one dollar hamburgers.”

I took note of the reference to food kitchens in particular, primarily because the history of the 19th century and early 20th century is filled with examples of charity being an entirely insufficient way of providing a human “safety-net”. To wit, orphanages, poor houses, and the like. As I’ve mentioned on this site, even a cursory reading of Dickens, Sinclair and the like provide ample testimony to this fact. It would be a mistake to let our admiration for the early patriots morph into a blinding romanticism; the level of poverty in this country during the 19th and early 20th centuries was simply stunning, dwarfing anything we see today in terms of scope.

But since I have to run, I’ll make a final quick suggestion: Make your ideas manifest with concrete action; if they are indeed superior concepts, or even just very good ones, people will gravitate to them in numbers that are truly significant. For instance, here’s a project: find some area in Keene or the surrounding area that could use some sort of access route or short cut. Start small; make it just 5 miles long. Form a business that studies it, plans it, builds it and maintains it. If it’s a success, that example will do far more to advance your cause than any amount of mere verbiage, as “doing” tends to be more impressive than talking in the abstract. The fact that such a project would be difficult to accomplish shouldn’t be a deterrent, since many things that are worthwhile are incredibly challenging to bring to fruition. It comes with the territory.

Thanks again,

Ann

Comment by Zeus

June 10, 2009 @ 11:01 am

. Comparing the scope of a road system needed to accommodate the needs of our population in 2009 with that of the era running from 1790 to 1830 is analogous to comparing a watermelon to a peanut. Building a Keene to Boston road in 2009 would be an exponentially more complicated matter than doing so in (for example) 1810, and it is this much greater level of complication (in the form of many more property owners with many disparate interests) that defines the core of the question.

We also have much better technology than they did from 1790 to 1830. Science fiction authors envisioned flying cars, tube-shuttles and all sorts of other possible methods of transportation long before the first punch-card, vacuum-tubed computers filled up entire buildings. Government moves at a glacial pace and inhibits creative ideas. “Well, we can’t do that because it would damage my campaign-contributing pals at Acme Road Corporation or my voting pals at the Hi-Tech Roads Are The Devil Church”, etc.

Government is inefficient as well. Roads tend to wind this way and that rather than going from point A to point B, thus reducing the cost. Years ago I read about then cutting-edge road technology that contained millions of tiny capsules embedded within so that as the road breaks down, the capsules crack open and leak out a material that seals up the damage thus making the road last longer. And yet the roads are still built with the same old tech and we get to enjoy road construction every other year and put up with massive potholes just months after local governments have just spend millions of dollars repairing those roads with old technology. There’s just no incentive to be efficient when it isn’t your money and there’s no profit to be made.

If I wanted to own a road, I’d do as you suggest. I have other plans regarding super-sturdy, low-cost housing instead.

Out of all the things government does wrong, roads are the least concerning.

Comment by Paul

June 11, 2009 @ 10:45 am

Ann,

Will people driving on our road still be forced to pay taxes to fund the others? Will they pay taxes on the gas they use to drive on our road?

It’s impossible to compete, if your customers are going to be forced to pay for the competition’s product anyway.

You make the assumption that a free system now would give us the same exact product as we got in the 1800s. No offense, but that’s about as absurd as saying that we’ve needed government control of computing since the 50s, because our computing power in the 50s would not have met our needs today., or that we’ve needed government control of cars since the 1800s, because the horse and buggy wouldn’t meet our needs now. A free road system would have evolved much the same way as other technologies have evolved when people are free to exchange goods and services, rather than being forced to use one on pain of jail. That is, very quickly, and cheaply.

Your singling out of food kitchens is switching the subject from roads to charity. My point was that government running roads makes about as much sense as government running food production, or radio/tv. That is, none at all. What we have in roads now is not even the equivalent of a social safety net — in which case perhaps government would buy road passes for the poor — it’s a completely government controlled industry — the equivalent of government running food production and distribution.

We’ve seen how that turns out — bread lines. What we have now in transportation is the equivalent of bread lines. We don’t see the amazing possibilities for transportation, because they have not been permitted. We haven’t seen the Shaw’s. If we had a system which allowed free choice in roads for these almost 200 years, I believe the technologies and options available would blow our minds — the way USSR defectors accustomed to bread lines were astonished by super-markets here.

I feel that you zeroed in on one aspect of my post, and maybe didn’t address other points.

All I want is a system which does not require me to use the threat of violence to extort money from a peaceful person. That is immoral to me, and I want no part of it. Yet, I am being forced to fund what I consider immoral. There are plenty of solutions which do not require this, and which have been demonstrated in the past.

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