Liberty Activist Pays Property Tax in $1 Bills
In protest of government people’s continued aggression against peaceful human beings, I decided to pay the latest Keene property tax bill, over $2700, in all ones. I brought pizza to share with those who were inconvenienced, gave a short speech, and Sam from the Obscured Truth Network brought his video camera. As usual, the bureaucrat aggressors did not like the cameras:
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87 Comments on Liberty Activist Pays Property Tax in $1 Bills
Hahaha. I loved it. I would have liked to see a bunch of pennies though. Ha
High 5 to all the activists present, thanks for the scoop. Watching the B-crats scatter was priceless. I’m LMAO right now because they are so cowardly, and the cop that coughed righteously before he hopped into my car was perfecto. You guys rock and will go down in history.
Peace and Love from politico-land.
Atlas
Ian, the dialogue was impressive my dude. Wish I coulda been there to enjoy it. You and Sam are the perfect tag-team. Thumbs up from the Conc. Statists need to get a life and realize that you’re robber barons. You’re filthy wanna-be capitalists (wrong word?) that steal for a living and deprive the residents of the press. How dare you? You’re own Supreme CT. says that in public means you have little expectation of privacy, believe me I know as I’m a PI. And I see everything, including you and your masters. All the time. Don’t misbehave cause it won’t pass my smell test and my friends are the media. Chow for now, til next time.
Nicely done guys. Thank you.
BALLSY!
Our courts being bound to uphold the constitution and the laws governing; are they not conspiring to commit treason by commiting fraud towards the the government and we the people by demanding payment of a non legal currency. under usc title 18 setion 371. And if our courts are committing treasonous acts who do we report it to. We must uniite to bring our court systems back to where they defend we the people instead of prosecuting we the people trying to perform our patriotic duties
Our courts being bound to uphold the constitution and the laws governing; are they not conspiring to commit treason by commiting fraud towards the the government and we the people by demanding payment of a non legal currency.
“Section. 3. Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”
“But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain—that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.”
Go Ian Go!
Go Sam Go! Love the pizza bit!
once again another pointless freekeene protest. thanks for nothing guys!
Maybe instead of sniping you can show us how to do one the “right” way. Or maybe you’re just a troll.
I think it has a great point, which is to call the bureaucrat’s attention to their complicity in a great evil, and spark a change in them.
Or maybe you’re just a troll.
lord above. the ready invocation of the T-word here is one of the lamest anti-speech tactics anyone can pull. always in the hip pocket of the FK retarded sanctimonious. zOMG, it’s an “activist”! it’s obvious that unbridled congratulations are expected when you post such vids. otherwise, you can simply ask a critic to provide examples of superior protests or suggest ways this could’ve been improved.
nah, you and so many here want unconditional suckoffs for your public prancing.
big points to the camera op. being kidnapped not necessary in all cases to show what’s going on. lesson there.
Great. Thanks guys, wish I could be in Keene. Maybe next year.
Watching the comments from onlookers was interesting too. That lady was so rude about ther video recording. Does she not realize that there are ALWAYS cameras and surveillance in the gov’t buildings? Heck, they even video tape you in the Wal-Mart parking lot.
Nice! It would have been better if you had paid them in pennies, though.
I love how the guy in line feels sorry for the bureaucrat whose robbing him “it not right to make her count $1 bills” but doesn’t feel affronted that he has to pay up under threat of jail.
YOU’RE GOING TO MAKE ME COUNT MY 2,700$ ONE DOLLAR AT A TIME? THE NERVE!!!!!!!!!
Hmmm… I wonder what would have happened should a second, unaffiliated member of the press, having been alerted to the police call, showed up just after the policeman left to film the now newsworthy story?
Should have used pennies.
Considered it, but can you imagine what $2700 in pennies weighs? Plus, most of those ones were stamped with FreeKeene.com and FreeTalkLive.com and you can’t stamp coins.
You should try coins though and make your own video!
Great video!
“I owe the government $3400 in taxes. So I sent them two hammers and a toilet seat.”
- Michael McShane
Hardman is right, you FSers don’t seem to tolerate dissent very well. If you’re going to post these events, then be prepared for some criticisms as well as kudos. Two of my own points:
1) Expressing your objections to a bill by paying in inconvenient denominations (dollars, pennies, whatever) is so cliche, almost a parody of a parody if you will. It does nothing more than bring ridicule upon yourselves and more empathy, and possibly respect, for the people who have to tolerate you. If you object to the tax, then don’t pay it. You’re the one trying to start a war.
2) That being said, I am glad you videotape these things. I wonder when people will realize the phrase “You can’t record me without my permission” is a fallacy. It’s just so funny to hear.
If you object to the tax, then don’t pay it. You’re the one trying to start a war.
Tell that to yourself next time you’re mugged. “If I don’t like being mugged, I shouldn’t hand my wallet over to the mugger when he points his gun at my head.”
What makes you think Ian and Sam are attempting to start a war? I find that to be a ridiculous claim because there is no foundation for making it.
I really liked this video. Ian only wanted to pay in “legal tender” as opposed to writing a check, the fact that it made things a bit slower gave everyone some time to think about why he was there in the first place (threats of losing his home).
Edan,
I would love to not pay taxes to the gang, there are many worthy charities to whom I would rather give the money. Could you explain how I can do so without spending the rest of my life in jail, being homeless, or poor?
gave everyone some time
just stop and think about that, if you’re able. plausible that there may have been another aggression victim who missed or was late for an important appointment (e.g., job interview) because of ian’s cutesy showboating. ian cannot blame that entirely on the state simply because the state forces. funny to see an “activist” (ha!) so idyllically consumed with PR proudly delivering what’s potentially some of the worst PR in FK history.
let them eat pizza, says his majesty the arranger of when victims will be further victimized. he knows what’s best for them, as he helps shove their backs against an already ruthless process.
Anyone who’s ever dealt with bureaucracy should expect delays. Don’t ever deal with bureaucracy immediately before anything important.
You can do better than that, Hardman.
Anyone who’s ever dealt with bureaucracy should expect delays.
delays because of bureaucracy, yes. this delay — a delay you initiated? no. this was anomalous. the very reason you did it was to slow down the machine, and you’re here now in laughable disingenuousness acting as though the machine’s normality was unaffected. typical snot-nosed arrogance.
you — yes, you — potentially fucked away the day (or worse) of peaceful people, increasing their misery. attempting to fob it off on the state is normal FTL-style shirking. this was your show, pizza man. as usual, things here must be explained as if to children:
the state is responsible for delays it causes. you are responsible for delays you cause. while the times sum, responsibility shifts not. in planning their errands, victims of the state typically account for nominal state-caused delay. likely, most of those victims wanted to shove that pizza “gift” straight up your ass, because even as stupid as they may be, they knew you were intentionally slowing the works while paying. oh, but you got your “point” across. you also scheduled your day around knowing what you were going to do — a luxury denied those who, according to you, were “inconvenienced”.
a PR masterpiece! but hey… at least you “did something” (FK wank #3).
What exactly is wrong with slowing down the machine a little? That enables people to hold their money a little longer. If we keep it up, that delay might actually become significant.
We’re all waiting with baited breath to hear your strategy, Hardman. Is your path to liberty trolling the FK comments section?
FACT: The bureaucrats had more than enough people to continue to take “customers”, but they assigned a bunch of them to count the money. The blame is on them.
FACT: I came in the last hour of the last day to pay. The people in line should have expected extra delays due to last-minute payments.
FACT: You are a troll. I thought for a little while you had something valuable to add – clearly I was wrong. You only derail and attack.
What exactly is wrong with slowing down the machine a little? That enables people to hold their money a little longer.
you are not serious… i semi-hope.
We’re all waiting with baited breath to hear your strategy, Hardman.
don’t bait your breath. and, of course, it’s back to the “please let’s not talk about what i did and posted, unless on net you’re sucking me off” routine.
as i say here regularly to the holy-fallacy-trilogy adherents, assume i’m a run-of-the-mill statist; it changes not a whit the discussion of your acts — acts you advertise habitually — yet curtails nicely enough your silly attempts to blaze rabbit trails.
Is your path to liberty trolling the FK comments section?
and it’s back via desperation to your pussy anti-speech word of the decade: “troll” — now applied in the same manner as “terrorist”. in each case the misuser attempts to shut off argument by with a single word labeling his opponent unworthy of consideration. more often than not, the only offender with true regard to the respective term is the hurler. that applies here. at this board i consistently maintain logical criticism — mostly negative, rarely positive — refusing steadily the ridiculously inept and fallacious attempts to divert from the relevant argument. the core fallacies used i have noted and explained repeatedly. instead of rebutting these explanations, the same fools merely reiterate the same fallacies. and you call me a troll. you call me a troll because you’re too much of a pussy to do openly what you’re attempting through epithet: to simply delete comments that are regularly negative. that would expose you more as the anti-speech fraud you are, so instead you use the T word, appealing to some bogus intellectual dignity that is all but. most of those reading this site are fooled; a few are not. you cling to the most.
FACT: The bureaucrats had more than enough people to continue to take “customers”, but they assigned a bunch of them to count the money. The blame is on them.
OMG, did you say “FACT”? heavens! ::burp::
you were speechifying, accompanied by multiple cameras. they wanted you gone. they are stupid, even more cowardly than you, and used to bossing people around, however indirectly. you should know this, and probably do, yet according to you it’s the other victims — who unlike you did not have sufficient warning — who should know norms (and abnorms) and plan accordingly. you cannot get around the prime contradiction here, that you intentionally slowed down the works significantly and at the same time desire credit for and exoneration from that result.
I came in the last hour of the last day to pay. The people in line should have expected extra delays due to last-minute payments.
translation: you chose the time most likely to screw over people not expecting your slowdown, then demand that this weigh in your favor, not against you. essentially the same contradiction.
FACT: You are a troll. I thought for a little while you had something valuable to add – clearly I was wrong. You only derail and attack.
you are attempting to redefine “troll” to cover regular harsh criticism while also hoping it for effect retains in the eye of the reader its original meaning.
try honesty in all things. shorter path.
I didn’t screw over anyone. The state is screwing them over. The state slowed down the works, not me.
Nothing we do will make everyone happy, Hardman. If people want to be offended at liberty activism that’s THEIR problem. We’ll do what we can to minimize the inconvenience, but as long as there is oppression, there will be activism, and likely others whose “business” with the gang will be disrupted.
Again, sometimes your critique is useful, but it’s usually loaded with personal attacks, so it’s unlikely anyone will take you seriously.
Plus, you’re just another commenter on the internet. People who live here and share their critique are worth much more. People who have actually DONE activism’s critique are much more useful (Lauren, Russell, Sam). That’s why I ask, what are YOU doing? Why should I care what you think? You have no credibility, and lose more with every personal attack.
Since you are doing nothing, I fully expect another post full of evasion and attacks.
Sometimes I’m a sucker for a good troll, and you are a good one!
I didn’t screw over anyone. The state is screwing them over. The state slowed down the works, not me.
not merely by coincidence, in your denials of the obvious you sound like the state.
If people want to be offended at liberty activism that’s THEIR problem.
a mantra i hope will be extended to carl drega, if it’s to exist. of course, your statement conflicts explicitly and deeply with your retarded meanderings elsewhere regarding “violence”.
but it’s usually loaded with personal attacks, so it’s unlikely anyone will take you seriously.
as explained several times, those not taking me seriously merely on account of “personal attacks” are morons. couldn’t care less how they take me.
People who live here and share their critique are worth much more.
i’ll let that quote simmer in its own filth.
People who have actually DONE activism’s critique are much more useful (Lauren, Russell, Sam). That’s why I ask, what are YOU doing? Why should I care what you think? You have no credibility, and lose more with every personal attack.
and now, amid your normal illogic blast (you are, it should be obvious to anyone not a dunce, employing fallacious ad hominem argument here; as also explained several times to the dull, there exists non-fallacious ad hominem), you add in predictably bogus style the “credibility” dodge, exposing your rank inanity. credibility is the quality or power of inspiring belief, and it has no place in any argument the premises and structure of which require no belief in the non-demonstrated (i.e., most arguments, and all in which i’ve engaged at this board). instead of facing this truth and behaving accordingly, you attempt — damned lamely — to disguise your fallacious ad hominem argument with feel-good go-to words such as credibility. you are, however, asserting openly enough that my argument about solely your actions depends on my actions. this is too nonsensical even for someone as stupid and in over his head as you, yet it’s “defense” #1 here at the FK hall o’ swoon.
Since you are doing nothing,
assumes fact in evidence. you should be ashamed of yourself for that one, if nothing else. secondarily, it highlights that you don’t measure an opponent worth a damn.
I fully expect another post full of evasion and attacks.
me not being diverted overmuch by your evasion attempts is simply staying on topic. you want to convert a post about you to a post about me. why? only because your action was criticized negatively.
I tried explaining to you how your critique could be made more valuable. You don’t care. You have no tact. Perhaps you should try reading Carnegie’s “How to Win Friends and Influence People”.
Since you don’t care about how to properly critique, I don’t care about what you have to say.
You keep sniping, we’ll keep doing!
the core fallacies used i have noted and explained repeatedly. instead of rebutting these explanations, the same fools merely reiterate the same fallacies. and you call me a troll.
You know, when you have to explain things repeatedly and people still don’t understand what the hell you’re on about, maybe your communication skills are deficient?
All I’ve read from you thus far are post after post of you being an obnoxious, cantankerous boor who enjoys berating and criticizing activists without providing coherent examples of your own success as supporting evidence that you have even the faintest clue as to what you’re even talking about, which is often opaque and unintelligible in the first place.
Maybe it’s your monotonous monologues, your repetitious activist-bashing or autoerotic ego-stroking that’s obfuscating whatever the hell it is you’re trying to get across.
Or maybe you’re simply full of sound and fury signifying “I’m a dick.”
Great stuff Ian! I liked the speech.
I also enjoyed Ian’s speech
You guys are too much… Seriously. The pizza was nice.
How does the public at large respond to these acts of protest in Keene? Do they find you annoying or do they side with you on issues of immoral taxation, immoral imprisonment, violations of the freedom of press, et cetera? Is there a segment of the population of Keene who do not consider you press?
See?
Paying at the gubment counter: Not Nice
Pizza: Nice
I rest my case
Ian and Sam, YOU GUYS ROCK. This in NOT a pointless exercise! I’m here in San Diego and am taking note of your activities. You are showing the violence of the state and the the statist who support them. Cockroaches hate the light. You are shinning the light and just watch them run. Take care and your message is being heard.
‘Is there a segment of the population of Keene who do not consider you press?’
I did not want to presume to speak of this because I do not live in Keene, but nobody else bit so I’ll hack away at it.
One definition of ‘press’ is ‘all the media and agencies that print, broadcast, or gather and transmit news, including newspapers, newsmagazines, radio and television news bureaus, and wire services.’
What this means to me is that while some people may not consider FTL and OTN and FMTV and suchlike to be ‘press’, their consideration is largely irrelevant, because they are in point of fact press.
This, as an aside, is why Ian’s challenge of the legitimacy of the court he appeared in was ineffective. At this point the courts are considered by general acclimation to be legitimate, so Ian’s consideration of them as illegitimate, while probably correct, is largely irrelevant. One man on a hilltop decrying the court system as a criminal enterprise is not going to shift the public’s view of their legitimacy. This is why the goal of liberty activists is freedom in our lifetime, not freedom in the next month or two. Societal brainwashing through public ‘schooling’ and TV entertainment has set liberty back quite some way. The fight for a free press as waged by stalwarts like SamIAm and Dave Ridley is the front line right now in the battle for liberty.
The success or failure of these men to keep the free press free will be a huge factor in getting the message of non-aggression out to the masses and getting them snapped out of their indoctrinations.
Anyone who doesn’t think Sam or Dave are ‘press’ should not be writing letters to the editor or posting on blogs either, because that is press just as much as any of what those fellas are doing.
Awesome! Up here in Canuckistan you give me hope Iain, nice bit of work you did. I think Charley ‘Ardman has a thing for the government witch with the glasses and blond hair, that’s why he is so pissed off, perhaps his lifestyle is dependent on those goons, who knows. Speaking of coins, do you have a 50 cent coin in the US? What about using quarters? Imagine if 20 people did that in Keene, wait a minute, they would soon outlaw paying by dollar bills. No dollar bills allowed in this lobby peon!
, perhaps his lifestyle is dependent on those goons, who knows.
perhaps you’re a serial child rapist. “who knows.”
Mr, ‘Ardman – Perhaps you live in your mothers basement and jerk off to horse sex porn, “who knows.” If I was a serial child rapist I am sure you would be the one online complaining about me not doing it the proper way, after all your the expert on everything.
LPVIPER,
Thanks for answering the “does the general population of Keene consider the work of the activists as ‘press’.”
I am curious as to what the relationship is between the general community as a whole and the Free Keene activists and the FSP. I live in Providence, a very statist and politically corrupt city, and I am seriously considering signing the papers for the FSP and I was curious as to the state of the “free state,” especially Keene. I really appreciate the work of Ridley and Dodson. Ideally, I would hope the people of the community would see the worth of their work. It would be a shame if the work and ultimately the goals of the FSP activists are considered a nuisance.
Anyway, thanks.
April,
You should probably just visit Keene, see if you like the area and the pace of its lifestyle, and meet up with some Free-Staters to see if you feel enough of a sense of potential camaraderie with them to justify the idea. The actual group of people involved in the project seems to be quite small, but they do seem get on well with each other.
In terms of their influence in the community, it is de minimus at best; my guess is that most of the residents are pretty much unaware of the project’s existence. Among those few who are aware of it, I suppose the number of supporters and detractors are about even. Not a lot happens up here, so project participants are occasionally able to get some coverage of whatever quasi-street theater du jour prank they might undertake, but it tends to be of the “man bites dog” variety. This seems to provoke a fair amount of excitement amount local project members (the affect is sort of like when a kid gets his name in the newspaper for the first time), but the relationship between the project (and the ideas expounded by its members) and the lives of Keene’s citizens is all but non-existent.
To sum up, if your decision to move would be based primarily on the political-social efficacy of the project, you’d probably be disappointed. New Hampshire culture in general tends to be quite resistant to change, and project advocates tend to shoot themselves in the foot (politically speaking, of course) over and over again, mostly owing to immaturity. On the other hand, they do tend to support each other, and most are quite friendly; it’s like a small-but-pleasant club.
Ultimately, I think you’d do best to visit and come to your own conclusions. Good luck.
Ann
Ann,
Your comments above are fairly even-handed. I would, however, like you to clarify what you mean by “man bites dog”, “quasi-street theater du jour prank”, “shoot themselves in the foot” and “immaturity”.
Childishness and immaturity seem to be common adjectives hurled at Keene activists by a handful of people in the community.
I’m not sure if it’s because there’s a lack of understanding regarding the philosophical reasons activists do what they do, a belief that they should do something else or what.
What do you think is immature about their activism and what do you think they should be doing instead to change things for the better?
I think it’s called a ‘back-handed compliment’, Zeus
Ann,
I just found out about the FSP as a concept. I moved to Providence from NYC recently and am in no immediate hurry to move; I would like to finish my undergrad. Law school will most likely determine my next home.
If there was a good school in NH or in one of the neighboring states, that could work. I want to begin attending and getting involved in municipal government, but Providence is a frustrating town. The most popular politician ever was Buddy Cianci, a twice convicted criminal, and the most infamous politician was Nelson Aldrich, a criminal for a whole different reason. This city and state are very statist, very corrupt and very frustrating. I don’t think I could affect much change here (although I will continue to try), so I really like the idea of the FSP and all these liberty-minded individuals picking NH as a place to make a stand. It’s a romantic concept and a noble cause. It’s something to ponder for the future at least.
Thanks for your awesome response to my question.
It must be disappointing that the relationship/awareness between the project and community is minimal. Isn’t it the goal of the project to foster a closer relationship with the community to expand consciousness of liberty?
-a
I was just watching this clip again and had to laugh as I often do at most of the free-stater’s attempts to advocate for themselves, which generally backfire.
Ian, do you really think ranting at City Hall was a good way to communicate? Who are you trying to attract, exactly?
Your tactics only turn away mainstream educated people living in Keene. Anyone who can read laws can see that you guys constantly misinterpret them, and anyone who buys into the project is ignorant and on the fringe and will only worsen your image in the long-run.
I challenge you guys to try and attract the average citizen, not the crackpot outcast.
I am sorry to hear about your mainstream education, immaturity, I wish you all the best in your recovery. Let me know if there’s anything I can do.
Paul,
You continue to prove my point with your sarcasm, which is an ineffective way to communicate.
Again, I challenge you guys to attract the average citizen in Keene. It will take a serious change in your tactics, but only then will you be successful.
Not sure what the “average” person in Keene is. Everyone I’ve met is very different, and mostly very friendly.
Maybe you should come meet some of us at Social Sundays at Vendetta. Then again that might shatter your view that we are “outcasts” and “crackpots”.
Ian,
True enough, “average” is very subjective, though you can look up statistics on the average age, income, political and religious views, etc of people in Keene. It may not be a bad idea as part of your research to target more people in the community.
Two points for you to ponder:
You were not successful in making a positive relationship with the man in city hall who was so appalled that he called you on your behavior. Wow.
I can’t remember which video it was, but the guy making cartoon noises running around the room hiding the penny definitely doesn’t attract the average Keene citizen.
…just food for thought on how you all might be more successful…
Wow, guess what, we can’t win everyone over, and aren’t trying to. I told him I don’t appreciate them imprisoning peaceful people and he didn’t have anything else to say after that. Maybe because he knew it was true.
Plus, winning hearts and minds takes time. Though judging by the positive honks and waves we get anytime we do a demonstration, I’d say we’re doing just fine.
Hahaha…. I honk and wave at the guy wearing a hot dog costume, but I don’t stop to buy a hot dog.
Delusions delusions….it’s more likely that the man ended the conversation because he realized he would get nowhere while you continued your rant and you weren’t worth the effort.
Take it or leave it, but the average citizen of Keene does not find you approachable. Instead of getting defensive you should consider how you might change that image. You have to be objective and critical to progress and achieve goals…
Again, I’m not sure how you can speak for the “average” person. We’ve been approached many times by what appear to be normal people.
I’d suggest you are not average simply due to the fact that you are here commenting on a regular basis.
Quite average, really…
I’m just under Keene’s median age, but in the second largest age cohort. I earn almost exactly the median income at my (very normal!) job which is shared by 7 million other respected professionals in the country.
Average is measurable.
Ian,
You’re getting really defensive. I don’t think the idea that acting in a manner more dignified and approachable would be more effective for your cause is in anyways outrageous or insulting. I am all about street performance and theater, but it’s going to take more than rants and pranks to effect change. If we are facing absurd legislation and taxation, the most effective response might not be absurdity. If you want to change the minds of the people, insulting their morals and intelligence is probably not the best avenue. That’s all. I don’t think the commenter “Immaturity” is for property taxes or immoral incarceration and should at least be considered.
-a
I think positive suggestions are always useful, and willingness to help enact them even more so.
April, “immaturity”, etc, what do you think would be the most effective means to reduce the use of aggressive violence in Keene, especially by government, and to raise awareness about these issues?
My statement stands, “immaturity”. I wouldn’t know average if I saw it but it’s safe to say you aren’t average, because the average person doesn’t comment on or even read this blog.
April,
Should I not defend myself and the other activists against false statements?
“immaturity” claims the average person doesn’t find us approachable. I point out that she can’t speak on behalf of all “average” people and that many people have approached us.
Whose morals and intelligence have I insulted?
I made a moral and intelligent statement to the tax office bureaucrats. If you think you can do a better job, I invite you to lead the way.
So the majority of the people who read this blog are not average citizens, but there are some of us on either end of that bell curve. I believe Ann is correct in that the average Keene citizen doesn’t know what the FSP is.
I saw the video on channel 8 of Ian ranting and checked out the website. Not all publicity is good publicity…
Paul,
I’m not sure what the most effective means to affecting change. This is exactly the issue I am dealing with personally. I think the most important aspect of changing our communities, states and nations, et cetera , is education. This act of paying property tax with $1 bills is an attempt to bring about awareness, ie: education. I agree with the purpose of this political act but the people in the tax collectors office we should assume do not share our beliefs. If the presentation of the tax money was not done with pizza and the giggling theatrics, but done with a seriousness, than maybe the workers in the tax office and the other citizens in line would take this issue more seriously. When I first watched this video, I enjoyed the theatrics but I don’t think the purpose of this act was to merely entertain.
I’m not really sure Paul. If I cornered the market on how to successfully demonstrate the fallacy of our current government, I would have spread the word as passionately as possible and there wouldn’t be a need for the Free State Project at all; we’d already live in a truly free nation. Since I am mostly unsure what the most effective way of demonstrating my message, in situations of civil disobedience I try to think how Ghandi or King would present themselves and hopefully I can ideally conduct myself in manner similarly dignified.
Ian,
Of course you have the right to defend yourself but it might be more productive to recognize whom you really need to defend yourself against and whom might potentially be an ally. “Immaturity” calls himself “average” and says you do not successfully entice himself to support your efforts. Yes, I would agree most people do not typically read this blog but that only means “Immaturity” is most likely in your target demographic of who you should try incorporate into your cause. He or she probably espouses your beliefs already. If this method of protest does not work for “Immaturity,” then I would question what “Immaturity” would propose to protest taxation which pays for immoral imprisonment. If “Immaturity” does support your cause, does have ideas of how to protest in different manners, I would support him or her and help him or her in starting another tax protest. This cause is going to require a tapestry of many different people with many different ideas of achieving the same goal. If this method of protest does not work for “Immaturity,” challenge “Immaturity” to take the lead next time in the protest.
Immaturity,
You need a better user name. Writing about you with no concept of which appropriate pronoun to use is clumsy at best.
Ian,
post script…
You did not insult my morals or intelligence, but I would assume some of the people in that tax office were offended and felt their beliefs were being condescended to. I am sure some of those people in that office, although they probably do not enjoy paying taxes, feels it is actually a patriotic act. If you consider things from their perspective, it might make it easier for you to communicate your message to those people of Keene.
With that all said, I think in principle you are doing good things and keep it up.
-a
April,
Apologies…I read Ann’s statement and “immaturity” is what resonated with me. I didn’t mean to get this involved.
I’ll be honest, I’m not a free state supporter. I find many of the arguments intellectually stimulating as age-old themes but haven’t seen any effective activism going on in town.
But I do have an open mind and I stand by what I said earlier…I challenge the FSP to change my mind with something better. I’d love to root for the underdog, but the free staters here have not done anything that I can latch onto. You’re right, it always seems to be theatrics…from ripping up Central Square to harrassing kind hard-working people at the Community Kitchen, to laying out guns on the curb with small children around…that is nothing I can get behind.
I love your idea of keeping King and Ghandi in mind. I would support that.
So I’ve laid it out and I can’t spend more time on here. I’ll get ripped apart before too long anyhow. The challenge is to reach me, the average citizen who perhaps isn’t so average because I think I have a more open and peaceful mind than many, with some activism that makes sense.
April,
You don’t see what I see as an admin of this site. I see who “Immaturity” really is. She’s a liar. She claims to have seen the video and just come here to check things out. Nonsense. She has been posting here for a long time as Jasmine Mack.
Why lie and hide behind a fake name, Jasmine? By lying you’ve lost all your credibility.
Another lie, that activists have been “harassing” people at the Community Kitchen. Care to provide evidence?
I can provide evidence of activists going to volunteer on a regular basis there. How is that “harassing”? I’m sure if they were bad volunteers, they’d be asked not to return.
Busted again, Jasmine.
I didn’t say anything violent and now you’re looking up my email address? I had no idea you felt so threatened. Am I not allowed to have an anonymous conversation? Does it matter who I am?
Ok, Ian…you have successfully scared me away! What a great way to spur conversations with local citizens….another example of your fine activism.
April,
My speech at the tax office was serious – not giggling, so not sure where that impression came from. Yes, I brought pizza, and some of the people standing in line took advantage of the offer to eat while they waited to get “serviced”.
That was the protest I chose. I look forward to you showing us a better way. Until then, we’ll keep trying different things.
Nice deflection, Jasmine. I didn’t look up anything. I knew who you were the first time you posted. It’s sent in the email notices I receive. I withheld my knowledge until you started lying.
I’m not threatened by you. You got busted, now you’re taking your ball and going home.
Try telling the truth next time.
I am an average citizen, though less violent and more open-minded than many I think.
I did see the clip on channel 8 earlier today which spurred my initial post, which I stand by.
And I thought it unimportant to name myself since I was just having a conversation online. I think the name thing is really irrelevant…April was just trying to find an easier way to address me.
I still challenge you to partake in activism that attracts the average Keene citizen. I don’t think it’s an impossible task, but a goal you guys may want to change your direction towards.
Just sayin…
(this is all a little funny because I didn’t say anything violent or mean-hearted…I guess criticism is tough to take)
Ian,
Sorry I got the wrong impression about the giggling. Maybe it was my own giggling I heard. Who knows?
Regardless, I feel like I got dragged into an old, private argument. You’ll have to forgive me, sometimes I can be a little naive and overly optimistic. Here I was thinking I could build a bridge between “Immaturity” and Free Keene. Apparently, there was more going on than I was privy to. C’est la vie’. It’s pretty sad if an individual who assumedly has the same ideals as Free Keene chooses to bicker rather than help work to achieving those shared ideals. Shameful… Hence the anonymous name?
- April Elizabeth Reed
April,
I didn’t think I was bickering, I somehow thought I was making you all aware that a different type of activism might reach people like me better.
I didn’t realize it was assumed that everyone on here shares the same ideals…what about people who share some of the same ideals?
At any rate, I thought much of what you said above made a lot of sense and was exactly the message I was trying to get out.
April,
How do you think we can better emulate Gandhi or MLK? Would you say that more serious civil disobedience is preferable, and how would that look? I do think that people refusing to obey immoral edicts out of principle is a powerful statement. Refusing to pay taxes, for example, would be very powerful — unfortunately, it would also likely land you in jail for a long time.
So, I guess the question really is, what do you think the most effective way would be to protest government actions without full civil disobedience? Or, what manner of protestant obedience, as Ian was doing, would you say is most effective?
Immaturity,
You’re acting like a third disinterested party, leaving it up to others to convince you, as if you have no responsibility for your own beliefs or actions. It’s your job to seek out the truth, not sit back and hope it comes to you. What is it that you do believe? Do you agree with the non aggression principle?
I was making you all aware that a different type of activism might reach people like me better.
What form of activism would you say would be most effective in reaching people like you?
Paul,
Yeah, I guess you’re right about being a disinterested third party. Is that allowed? I stated earlier that I’m interested in the concepts intellectually, but seriously I’m pretty average and am not seeking this stuff out. I guess I thought it was more like church, where they accept everyone in hopes to evangelize. I thought that if you wanted to recruit more members then it was your job to convince me that the FSP ideals are worthwhile. And yes, I believe in the non-aggression principle.
from ripping up Central Square to harrassing kind hard-working people at the Community Kitchen, to laying out guns on the curb with small children around…
When did any of these events ever occur?
Ian,
In my first post, I think I mentioned that I’m not sure how to present myself and my protest more effectively. I am seriously having a problem with that personally. Just talking to my parents, who raised me to believe what I believe, told me I sound like an extremist when I am talking about politics. I don’t think I am even close to an extremist, in fact I am most likely a moderate if anything. But obviously I am failing in my attempt to convey my thoughts and beliefs. So I’m not really sure if at this moment I have an answer to your question. Also, I am a street performer so most likely, I would have had a bite of pizza if I was in Keene on the day you had pizza. With that said, I’m not sure if any else in that office who was not affiliated with Free Keene would have understood what your protest meant. Honestly, I think this is a long conversation that could not be settled with talking anyone, but only through action. So until we come up with a better solution, let’s eat pizza but aspire to do better.
Jasmine,
Sorry I used the word “bicker.” I have no idea of your relationship with Free Keene and it was wrong to place any judgement through my choice of words. With that, I am offering the olive branch and backing out of this conversation.
April,
I appreciate it. Again, I’m not mal-intentioned and I think you offered some great points to Ian that I could not have worded on my own.
I think it was a successful conversation 
I’m off as well (for real this time!)
“partake in activism that attracts the average Keene citizen”
We’re waiting for your ideas, Jasmine.
I’m surprised that anyone who advocates positive communication but acts like a pompous ass right out of the gate gets this much attention. Good job calling her out as a coward and a liar, Ian. I guess her nom de plume was more fitting than she realized. Irony. Gotta love it.
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