City Council Drinking Game Video

Here’s the video the people calling themselves “The City of Keene” don’t want you to see:

After reviewing their city council rules, city ordinances, and state laws; Dale Pregent seems to have made up the rules barring alcoholic beverage containers (not containing alcohol) in order to target free speech. When the Police Chief Ken Meola is unable to determine what is in the closed containers held by Ian  Freeman and Sam Dodson, they were arrested for refusing to consent to search. The video clearly shows, Heika – who consented to the search – being told “your fine”  as she remained in the meeting drinking from her bottle.

Let’s not forget they did all of this on live TV with the community watching.  Plans are in the works for the next City Council Drinking game, Aug. 19th, 7pm. Mark your calendar, it’s going to be a special event.

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64 comments
Ryan Glen Hirsch
Ryan Glen Hirsch

Wow. These cops and city councilors seriously know how to escalate a harmless situation.

Ghost Dancer
Ghost Dancer

Well over a year later, they *FINALLY* drop the charges???...WTF...???...

They sure dragged *THAT*OUT*...

..."speedy trial", my ass...

:(

AngryHateMusic
AngryHateMusic

These fat ass government fed mules, notice they are all fat because they don't work or produce a damn thing, they only consume. What a beautiful example of exposing their pony-show, thanks to you and your whole group. Oh, how they cannot handle anyone throwing a wrench into their dominance rituals. They behaved like a bunch of four year olds that were raised on tv. I fucking love you guys!

Paul
Paul

Bob, any answer to my question, or any comments on the gandhi quotes?

Here's my question again, for reference:

So it’s the issues you disagree with, more than the tactics, is that right? That is, you’d support the tactic of civil disobedience if it were used against laws you consider immoral?

bil
bil

The problem with you, Gabe, is that you keep coming up with well tought out answers. Then you expect people to think about them. Sad to see so much potential wasted- keep up the good work wherever you are! (I actually read your ideas) ---bil

Gabe
Gabe

I don't see a handout, but either way where I live we're in much worse shape than in NH. I'm involved in helping the LP down here get ballot access, and getting around the ridiculous laws.

Besides, as I mentioned before, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what help I could offer. Handing out flyers is great if you want to waste a lot of paper. I'm not sure the results will approach the potential outcome of the route I suggested.

bil
bil

That is one of the projects I have been working on for the last year and a half. It seems every time there is some sort of forward motion,someone else gets dead! Most people have no idea of what daily life is like in parts of that area. On the other hand, we have several here that do! Pakistan especially is very dangerous,and a lot of it can be traced back to the dissolution of the British Empire. Not to mention the rise of said Empire. While the US is certainly no angel, in many parts of the world, we are left cleaning up the mess the English made. They just had a longer time to make it! ---bil

Paul
Paul

One good man can accomplish extraordinary things -- but is not enough by himself. We can't chalk up the subsequent failures of the Indian government to Gandhi himself.

I think if the Indians could reform their government, to choose to make peace with the Pakistanis, they could indeed resolve that conflict.

bil
bil

Ghandi and his methods helped get the british out,they couldn't have stayed on much longer considering the position they were in. Then look at the history of India. Where did all of the peaceful thinking go? Poverty,repression,wars of agression. They exchanged a foreing overlord for a homegrown one. (Not refering to Ghandi specifically, just the regimes since the British left) How far would CD go now to resolve the conflict with Pakistan? There are times in history when the conditions are ripe for CD to work, and many more when it won't. ---bil

Sam Dodson
Sam Dodson

Hey Gabe, I have very limited time to spend reading/responding to comments because I'm busy doing/creating activism with my free time.

I would love your help with this. Check out the forum thread, I just posted the document we handed out. I think it needs to be expanded to better explain why the ordinance is impossible for KPD to enforce.

I asked for help last time, and nobody stepped up. Perhaps your interested in communicating this to the media and bureaucrats?

http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=3690.1....

Gabe
Gabe

Wow, so no response from Ian or Sam about taking advantage of this singular opportunity. That's too bad, I was really looking forward to actually having increased liberties, not just discussing them.

Paul
Paul

We only seek to emulate our heroes: Dr. King and Gandhi.

I am sorry you don’t approve, but I am sure they would approve of what we are doing.

I'm not so sure they would approve of all activism. Consider this, from Gandhi:

It is the acid test of nonviolence that in a nonviolent conflict there is no rancor left behind, and in the end the enemies are converted into friends.

I encourage liberty activists to show real love to those who oppose them, and not create hatred or leave rancor.

Paul
Paul

Bob, here are some quotes from Gandhi, which you may find interesting:

The state represents violence in a concentrated and organized form. The individual has a soul, but as the state is a soulless machine, it can never be weaned from violence to which it owes its very existence. Hence I prefer the doctrine of trusteeship

I look upon an increase in the power of the state with the greatest fear, because, although while apparently doing good by minimizing exploitation, it does the greatest harm to mankind by destroying individuality, which lies at the root of progress. We know of so many cases where men have adopted trusteeship, but none where the State has really lived for the poor

[Government] control gives rise to fraud, suppression of truth, intensification of the black market and to artificial scarcity. Above all it unmans the people and deprives them of initiative, it undoes the teaching of self- help they have been learning for a generation. It makes them spoon- fed.

[A friend] says that non-violence cannot be maintained by the mass of people. And yet, we find the general work of mankind is being carried on from day to day by the mass of people acting in harmony as if by instinct. If they were instinctively violent, the world would end in no time. They remain peaceful ... it is when the mass mind is unnaturally infuenced by wicked men that the mass of mankind commit violence. But they forget it as quickly as the commit it because they return to their peaceful nature immediately after the evil influence of the directing mind has been removed.

In the ideal state, therefore, there is no political power, because there is no state. But the ideal is never fully realized in life. Hence the classical statement of Thoreau that the government is best which governs least.

thinkliberty
thinkliberty

We only seek to emulate our heroes: Dr. King and Gandhi.

I am sorry you don't approve, but I am sure they would approve of what we are doing.

Paul
Paul

Can you answer my question Bob? And, what idea, precisely, do you think is stupid? I certainly don't agree with everything everyone says, so who knows, maybe I'll agree.

Are there any other issues you think the government is overstepping on? For example, do you think a person has the right to allow smoking in their business?

bob
bob

Like I said, pathetic losers. Just keep yelling louder, maybe someone will hear you. No one's gonna care, because what you are yelling is so stupid. But maybe you will be heard. Again, to invoke the names of Dr. King and Gandhi show how skewed your mind is. You barely belong on the same planet as them, let alone in the same conversation.

Paul
Paul

Lots of great people use emoticons, don't be mean.

Please, do not even think to refer to yourself in the same context as Martin Luther King and Gandhi. Yeah, right, they were being arrested, hosed with water cannons, attacked by police dogs and shot for things like disrupting a city counsel meeting or smoking pot on central square or women going topless on main street. Civil disobedience can be effective when the causes are just and real. Your ’causes’ are meaningless. To in any way try to elevate your stature or presume legitimacy by claiming to use the same tactics as KIng and Gandhi is pathetic.

So it's the issues you disagree with, more than the tactics, is that right? That is, you'd support the tactic of civil disobedience if it were used against laws you consider immoral?

thinkliberty
thinkliberty

I am glad you're experiencing cognitive dissidence Bob. Thanks for posting.

Victims of the illegitimate "drug war" have been arrested, hosed with water cannons, attacked by police dogs and shot.

The same tactics King and Gandhi used should be useful for ending violent state supremacy. Right?

bob
bob

Almost as pathetic as 'adults' who use emoticons. Losers.

bob
bob

Please, do not even think to refer to yourself in the same context as Martin Luther King and Gandhi. Yeah, right, they were being arrested, hosed with water cannons, attacked by police dogs and shot for things like disrupting a city counsel meeting or smoking pot on central square or women going topless on main street. Civil disobedience can be effective when the causes are just and real. Your 'causes' are meaningless. To in any way try to elevate your stature or presume legitimacy by claiming to use the same tactics as KIng and Gandhi is pathetic.

Paul
Paul

taxes

I'm definitely with you there :)

I vote

I vote too, but that alone seems fairly ineffective, don't you think? Have you considered getting involved with an anti-tax lobbying group, or running for office? Do you call your representatives (especially at the state level) often?

And what do you people do other than STUPID protests that mean NOTHING? Your approach seems to be, “If I yell real loud, what I’m saying must be right.” You are all full of shit, and I mean no disrespect to shit when I say that.

Keep in mind that not all people here agree on all things. There are many particular cases of activism that I haven't agreed with, for example.

Don't you think civil disobedience can be effective? I mean, there are plenty of historical examples where it has been very effective -- MLK and Gandhi are two of the more famous ones.

bob
bob

taxes. I vote. And what do you people do other than STUPID protests that mean NOTHING? Your approach seems to be, "If I yell real loud, what I'm saying must be right." You are all full of shit, and I mean no disrespect to shit when I say that.

Paul
Paul

Bob, what do you see as the most problematic restrictions of liberty these days, and what are you doing about it?

bob
bob

You people are a bunch of idiots. This is what happens when fools don't have enough to do to keep themselves busy. You bitch and moan about losing your personal freedoms, try going somewhere which actually does limit your freedoms. Today you can't drink out of the bottle of your choice at a city counsel meeting, tomorrow they will take your guns away. I can see the logical jump to that. GROW UP. You are way less mature than my kids were at 2 years old. Whine and moan when you don't get your way.

Gabe
Gabe

Sam - What notice?

Also, regardless of whether or not you consider it CD, what I wrote about pursuing it in the courts system still stands.

Sam Dodson
Sam Dodson

Gabe - I never called this CD. I told the city councilors this is your ordinance I will be non-cooperating with today, as I handed them the notice.

Sam Dodson
Sam Dodson

BigScrotum - I could care less what people who only seek to spew negativity and anger at others. If you expect me to take you seriously, try using your time here on earth to actually help rather than criticize others.

Of course that would take courage and stepping out behind your anonymity.So far all I have seen is negativity spewing from someone so ashamed of what they are doing the have to hide themselves from the word. Too bad, focused in the right direction, people might actually give a shit about what you have to say.

Gabe
Gabe

PS - Sam, what I wrote to Ian (above) goes for you too. You can either continue being disgruntled, or see if something real can be done about it.

Gabe
Gabe

Thanks Heika – That doesn’t make sense. There’s a sub committee meeting tonight which is probably where the letters go. Here;’s their calendar:

http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/calendar/meetings-calen...

It shows a full council meeting next week.Is this a joke? They use Google Calendar to manager the city calendar? Do they realize how unsecure that is? I'm surprised no one has had any fun with this yet...

bil
bil

Yeah,where DO they come from?? And why are your posts the only ones with them? The backslash isn't even near the quote key!! WTF??? Are you using a homemade keyboard, or maybe someone switched the keys on you!? I think they are on to you-be careful!! ---bil

Heika Courser
Heika Courser

Sam, I guess August is a vacation month, so it gets all messed up. I'm just going by what the lady at the desk told me today when I submitted the letter. I can go down tomorrow morning and ask again if you'd like:)

KEENENATIVE
KEENENATIVE

...where DO those backslashes come from, Ian???...

KEENENATIVE
KEENENATIVE

bigScrotum on Thu, 12th Aug 2010 2:35 pm

Sam could use a lesson from Ray Lyman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVW9_ieM14s&fe...

Thanks for the link, BigBallSack! Ray is correct, though. The Consilution DOES trump consil ruls. Don't you know shit? "Conflict of Laws" is one legal phrase for it...Apparently, guys(&gals) like Ray bother you, testicle-breath...There are folks like Ray all over the world. Remember when Jesus said "the poor will always be with us"???...or Mark24..."whatsoever you have done to the least of them, so also have you done unto me"? What Jesus is saying is that it is not the "THEM", but rather the "US"...How will WE treat THEM?...What kind of people are WE???...juvenile boys mostly like the pee-pee jokes which "bigscrotum" is...Yeah, bigscrotum, I just called you a pee-pee joke. So what?...where's YOUR youtube video???...Let's see YOU get up and speak at the Keene City Council meeting...

Heika Courser
Heika Courser

SAM-- I dropped off my letter to the clerk's office today...There is no city council meeting on the 19th. It's tonight and then the 26th. Last week's meeting was a 'special' meeting.

Bradley Jardis
Bradley Jardis

Thanks, Bradley. I thought you might appreciate the indirect reference to a Terry Stop. How many do you think you've done in your lifetime?

Thousands and thousands.

Many motor vehicle stops can be classified as Terry stops.

Gabe
Gabe

Thanks, Bradley. I thought you might appreciate the indirect reference to a Terry Stop. How many do you think you've done in your lifetime?

Bradley Jardis
Bradley Jardis

Thank-you, Bradley Jardis, for the RSA citation. I don't see this as "Disorderly Conduct", even under NH RSA. The council meeting was not "disrupted", until MAYOR PREGENT & CITY CLERK PAT LITTLE DISRUPTED IT THEMSELVES.

You are most welcome, sir.... and I completely agree with you!

KEENENATIVE
KEENENATIVE

Thank-you, Bradley Jardis, for the RSA citation. I don't see this as "Disorderly Conduct", even under NH RSA. The council meeting was not "disrupted", until MAYOR PREGENT & CITY CLERK PAT LITTLE DISRUPTED IT THEMSELVES. Pregent knows that he has no legitimate claim to be Keene's mayor, besides his buddy-buddy with (now-former)Mayor Blastos, and the fact that the people who REALLY run "keene, inc.", like Pregent's brain-dead smileyface act...The disruption was caused by the disrupted themselves. CASE DISMISSED!

Brodie
Brodie

I guess it depends on whether civil disobedience means not obeying bad laws or not obeying government employees. If CD means disobeying bad laws, then this was not civil disobedience, since no laws were broken. If it means not obeying government employees, then this would count as CD.

Gabe
Gabe

On another post, we were discussing the activist divide, between those who believe in CD and those who want to work work "within the system".

Having watched the full video, it's my opinion that this is NOT a case of CD. This is just stupidity on the part of the mayor and cops, plain and simple.

Ian - In another post you claimed you were, in fact, trying to work within the system, or something to that effect. If you really believe in attempting this, then you need to follow through with it. To me, this is something you and Sam should pursue in the court system, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it made it all the way up to the US Supreme Court. It's a Fourth Amendment issue. You may say you don't want to pursue it in "their" system. But imagine the fall out if you won the case!

To flesh it out a bit, the Fourth Amendment reads:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

There are two cases on the books I can think of that are relevant this situation. First, a search needs to occur where "society believes that expectation is reasonable" (Katz v. United States, 1967). To me, once the officer determined Heika didn't possess any alcohol, it becomes a lot less reasonable to need to search you and Sam. Second, when a police officer witnesses "unusual conduct" leading him to reasonably believe "criminal activity" may be taking place, a search is possible (Terry v. Ohio, 1968). Although what you were doing can be considered "unusual conduct" by this standard, again it becomes a lot less unusual once it's revealed no alcohol is possessed by one person.

For what it's worth, I strongly encourage you to consider pursuing it in this way. Otherwise, what's the point of CD? You want to effect a change in the system, right? Well, I think this is how you do it. Of course, I am not a lawyer. So, there could be no case after all. But, you won't know until you investigate further. Contact the ACLU. Share your experience on some lawyer websites (abovethelaw.com). See if someone is willing to take the case.

thinkliberty
thinkliberty

"You can’t file a lawsuit against a state actor because they enforced a victimless law in a “constitutional” manner."

You couldn't file a lawsuit against a state actor in Germany during WW2 for killing Jews, their "constitution" didn't allow it.

But when their violent system failed, the Nuremberg trials happened and "following orders" was not accepted as a valid defense.

The violent “constitutional” system is on the brink of collapse. When it does, people will be held accountable for their actions as state actors. "following orders" will not be accepted as a valid excuse for their actions.

kristofeR
kristofeR

Hey Brad

"Sorry I didn’t catch the facetiousness"

Yea, I am lacking in the sense of humor funny personality department, so don't sweat it - but, being a fan of FTL I hear a lot about you and the great stuff you are doing up there, so its awesome to get some responses from you.

Can't wait to come up there (hopefully as soon as possible) and meet "Your home and family of liberty loving friends ... in New Hampshire!"

peace. love. anarchy

~kristofeR!

Bradley Jardis
Bradley Jardis

Sorry I didn't catch the facetiousness :P

All of you up there in Keene are doing terrific stuff, and I can’t wait to come visit & meet you all soon – and Michele Seven has been corresponding w/ me and offered to ever so graciously be a sort of guide for me, introduce me to some of you, and I appreciate that greatly :)

M7 rocks!

Your home and family of liberty loving friends await you up here in New Hampshire!

May I suggest http://www.nhmove.info ?

kristofeR
kristofeR

Bradley Jardis on Wed, 11th Aug 2010 6:11 pm

So, what exactly IS an “alcoholic Container”?

kristofeR,

This question actually is irrelevant due to the wording of the city council’s own rule/ordinance on open containers of alcohol:

Hey Bradley,

first of all, I'd like to say hello, and thanks for replying to my comment ...

I agree 100% w/ you - I was being a bit facetious in my questioning of this insanity, because I agree w/ the actions of both Sam & Ian here and I agree & appreciate w/ your response to my post.

All of you up there in Keene are doing terrific stuff, and I can't wait to come visit & meet you all soon - and Michele Seven has been corresponding w/ me and offered to ever so graciously be a sort of guide for me, introduce me to some of you, and I appreciate that greatly :)

Bradley Jardis
Bradley Jardis

So, what exactly IS an "alcoholic Container"?

kristofeR,

This question actually is irrelevant due to the wording of the city council's own rule/ordinance on open containers of alcohol:

Sec. 6-27. Consumption--Prohibited.

No person shall consume any alcoholic beverage or liquor upon any public way as defined in section 6-26 and by state statues within the city.

Sec. 6-29. Open containers on public property.

No person shall carry or be in possession of any form of open container, either made of glass, tin, or any other material, containing alcoholic beverages or liquor, on any public way as defined in section 6-26 within the city.

As you can see.. the container being one that originally stored alcohol is not an element of the offense under that section. The elements of the offense is that it has to a) be some sort of container; and b) contain alcohol.

And anything he feels has “disrespected” him constitutes a “disruption”, didn’t you know?

His opinion may make sense to him... I have a feeling but we'll be seeing what a federal judge thinks about it.

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