Police Shut Down Cub Scouts’ Cotton Candy Booth and Homeless Shelter’s Bake Sale

What would we do without the heroes in the Keene Police Department? Thank goodness they are here to keep us safe from the criminal Cub Scouts selling us cotton candy and the volunteers at the Hundred Nights shelter selling us baked goods! Here’s the news story from the Sentinel. I heard there was video taken, but I haven’t seen it pop up yet.

Many businesses and nonprofit organizations name Pumpkin Festival as their most profitable selling day or fundraiser.

But a few fundraisers were cut short by police and festival organizers.

Police shut down three vendors for operating without permits this year.

One of them was the Cub Scout Pack 297 cotton candy booth. Den leader Roberta Mastrogiovanni said being shut down was unfair.

“It was very rude to my scouts and people from out of town were witnessing what was going on,” Mastrogiovanni said.

According to Mastrogiovanni, who owns the Corner News, the scouts were selling on her private property next to her store. Permits are required only on city-owned land.

Suzanne L. Woodward, executive director of festival organization Center Stage, said the selling was happening on city-owned property, and that is why it was shut down.

Mastrogiovanni said the scouts had run their booth for the past four years in the same location, and there had never been a problem before.

The scouts moved their operation inside Mastrogiovanni’s store, and continued to sell cotton candy there. They were back outside later in the night.

Another vendor that was shut down was selling on behalf of the Hundred Nights Shelter. The booth was selling baked goods and drinks, according to Donald R. Primrose, who started the shelter last winter.

Members of Free Keene, a local activist group, were staffing the booth, Primrose said.

Primrose was angry at being shut down, and moved the booth from in front of the Apothecary to next to the Hundred Nights facility on Lamson Street, giving away the remaining items for free.

84 Comments

  1. Keep up the extortion and stealing rhetoric, Paul. I’m sure it is serving you well. I just don’t think you will ever accomplish anything with it.

    That's not rhetoric, that's what it is. I get a letter on a regular basis from a group of strangers whose services I do not want, and many of whose actions I find morally outrageous, who state in no uncertain terms that if I don't send them money they will send men with guns to lock me in their cage, and steal my home out from under me.

    Yet, because the gang enables you to you to force your neighbors to live according to your preferences, and to extort money from them to fund things you support, you want to pretend that all manner of aggression and violence on their part is magically ok. Extortion and theft must be called "taxes" or "eminent domain", murder must be called "collateral damage", slavery must be called "conscription" or "the draft", kidnapping and assault must be called "enforcement" of victimless "crimes", and torture must be called "enhanced interrogation".

    Sorry, I'm done playing along with the B.S.

    It is not a question of “begging city council for permission to use the land”. It is organizing and planning an event on City property.

    On what basis do the men and women calling themselves the "city" own this property?

    If you don’t want to organize an event, fine. But don’t complain when someone else does and they don’t do it the way you want.

    That's like saying, "If you don't like the way Al Capone is running the alcohol business, start your own". No, I don't have to start my own to say that aggressive violence is wrong, no matter what your cause, business, or event is.

    They're extorting innocent people's money to pay for this, by threatening aggressive violence against them, and I absolutely have a right to object to it.

  2. "So why shouldn’t someone like Ian take responsibility for allowing certain people to associate with Free Keene"

    No, because he can't stop people from being associated with Free Keene. How would he do that?

    I'm sure you can understand my skepticism at your suggestions about how to more effectively "run" an organization dedicated to principles you fundamentally disagree with.

    I agree that a leader doesn't have to be someone who "gives orders". But if he doesn't, then how can he be held responsible for what other people he doesn't control do?

  3. HC, here's an idea:

    Have a separate website dedicated to each cause. For example, there could be a "Stop the NH state monopoly on liquor" site, a "Stop cannabis prohibition" site, an "End business license requirements" site, etc. If activists at a particular site want a specific leader, they could choose one, perhaps by election. Those most interested in each cause could use that site to coordinate with others working towards that end.

    So, for example, you might be comfortable joining the "stop cannabis prohibition" site at this time, but not one for a different issue.

    What do you think?

  4. It sounds like Sam got bullied by the police.

    This reminds me of the parable of the sissy on the playground. As long as he keeps crying the other kids will pick on him mercilessly. Even other weak kids will heap laughter and ridicule on the timid one who can't fight his own battles.

    But when the crying child takes action and stands up for himself, the bullying stops. He might get roughed up in the first fight, but he gains a measure of respect and everyone leaves him alone from then on.

    The police like to oppress the population in unfair ways, and in that regard they are in the role of the bully. If someone stands up for themselves they get chewed up by the establishment.

    The result is that the people get browbeaten into submission. If their courage is not on par with their convictions, they just hunker down and try to avoid further conflict.

    This informs the actions of FreeKeene.

    Sam was arrested awhile back and by all accounts had an awful time. Has that experience changed him? Is he leading a crusade to stop police abuse, or is he trying to stay quiet hoping that they won't notice him?

    Nothing came of Sams arrest. No one was held accountable for the myriad injustices heaped upon him. Why do the cops keep bullying him? They know that he won't fight back. Why *shouldn't* they keep bullying him?

    (I'm not advocating violence against the police. Don't push the analogy too far or it'll fall off the table and break. I'm saying that charges should have been filed so that in future actions the police know that there will be consequences.)

    Like the sissy on the playground, the FreeKeene people get ridiculed because they act like losers, and they get bullied because they act like cowards. Both of these are learned behaviour which can be changed with a little effort and practice.

    No one will fight your battles, but lots and lots of people will help *you* fight your battles. This is what leadership and organization are for – lots of people adding a little bit of effort to help you achieve your vision.

    Someone asked (in a post) to "show the way".

    Start by being the voice of the group. Assess some of the incidents to give people a feel for what the group is about.

    For example: "We've decided not to worry about the police actions against the cub scouts. The issues at stake are not very strong, and the incident itself was not flagrant or well documented."

    (In your own words, and of course take your own position.)

    Remember that Rosa Parks got arrested, was tried, convicted, and lost her job over the bus incident.

    …but she also had many people help her and forced the issue using the court's own system of balances. We honour her for her courage, but also because she was successful.

    No one remembers Claudette Colvin.

  5. Dear God, another Rosa Parks analogy. Maybe instead of Swami Sam it should just be Sam, Lord and Savior. When will it end? In all cases of injustice, I think I should ask myself, 'What would Sam do?'

    The only answer, of course, would be to whine and taunt the police.

  6. they ridiculed my fave (one of my faves)

    MARCUS GARVEY ,,,and he was the best

    my other fave are John Brown that man had cahones

    is the Keene pd gonna arrest the webelos and brownies?

  7. david,
    you are a gadfly bug that needs to be swatted
    (bless your heart)
    the only saving grace is that you may learn something in spite of yourself by osmosis inadvertently

  8. Jeff, what action do you suggest to "stand up for yourself", given that we both oppose violent means?

    I'd hope that adults at some point would be principled and mature enough to stand up for the victim against the bully, rather than acting like schoolchildren and mocking the abused, but perhaps I hope to much.

    I must say, I've become severely disappointed with the social conscience of the bulk of humanity, at least in this country. Put most of them in any social abuse in history, and they would happily go along with societal norms.

  9. webelos and brownies

    Admittedly I'm ignorant, but those sound like racial terms. If they are, I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from using such language David.

  10. y

    a weblo is a pre boyscout meaning what you are before boy scouts

    and a brownie

    is what you are before a girl scout

    um

    you coulda tried a google search

    peace

  11. Learn your Scouting hierarchy, Paul.

  12. Whoops, my sincere apologies David, I should have known that.

    Btw, the last sentence above should read, "If modern Americans lived in any of the times and cultures where now famous abuse were being perpetrated, I am firmly convinced that the overwhelming majority would happily go along with societal norms tolerating or endorsing the evil, rather than stand up against them" (I got cut off in the middle of an edit)

  13. I barely knew it myself lol

  14. …once again, the Keene Police Dept. has allowed itself to be used as a private security force, enforcing the irrational & arbitrary dictates of a narrow-minded, petty, money-&-powerv elite, at the expense of not only the Taxpayer, but to the detriment of society as a whole….Having determined that neither the Cub Scouts nor Homeless shelters' bake sales were causing any actual disruption or interference with Pumpkin Fest, KPD should have just let them keep running their bake sales. I am sick & tired, sick & tired, sick & tired, of you people's bullshit…James, you've owned Brewbakers for 3 years. It's running on the inertia/momentum of the previous owners. You really haven't done JackShit w / it, that *I* can see…(Full Disclosure: I like to get coffee & etc., at Brewbakers. Still do…) Downtown businesses get special treatment in Keene, just look at Randy Filiault, & RailRoad Tavern, for proof of some of that "special treatment"…"holy_canole", you're a horses' ass…*NOBODY* thinks Ian or Sam are "good leaders", which is why only *NOBODY* follows them! I'm sorry you just can't wrap your little head around the fact that "FREE KEENE" is only a blog post / web site on the internet…Way to go way, way, way off-topic, kidzzzzzz~tKoK.

  15. Paul on Tue, 19th Oct 2010 6:33 pm

    ——————————————————————————–

    webelos and brownies

    Admittedly I’m ignorant, but those sound like racial terms. If they are, I’d appreciate it if you’d refrain from using such language David.

    Hopefully, Paul, you won't have a problem with the fact that I self-identify as a retarded nigger. I'm a retarded nigger, and damn proud of myself. If you think that I'm "racist" because I am a Native New Hampshire Nigger, that's *YOUR* problem. Please keep it to yourself…"Nigger" is not a skin color. It's a social class, or caste. That's why it's called "class warfare"…duh…~tKoK.

  16. You know Paul, what you say about modern Americans may or may not be true. But I am quite certain that Gandhi, MLK, Rosa Parks amp others frequently mentioned here, would not be involved with Keene Pumpkinfest bake sales, 420 protests, drinking games and drinking in public or public nudity. Perhaps they might be involved with, oh I don't know, real issues, like fighting for the rights of truly oppressed people, actual civil rights issues, real slavery that still exists, the rights of victims and survivors of genocide, true workplace justice and equality for people of all races, genders, sexual orientation just to name a few. And the Cupguy. I know they would be on his side.

  17. Maybe. But, they would probably know what "Cupguy"s name is, by now…And, ever heard the line about "grow where you're planted"???…activism, like peace, begins at home…Maybe we're not out fighting bigger evils in the World, because we're too busy fighting all the little evils around here…If an American's civil rights are violated by the gov't, then how is that *NOT* a civil rights issue…The mood at the homeless shelters' usual Sunday night open mike was somber, subdued, & oppressed. Yes, there really were real victims, who were really hurt, by the cops' actions at Pumpkin Fest. I am one of those victims. Geez, if I'd been driving a car, cops mighta' *SHOT ME*!!!…I was a Cub Scout. Yes, this *IS* personal….~tKoK.

  18. Paul,

    "Have a separate website dedicated to each cause. For example, there could be a “Stop the NH state monopoly on liquor” site, a “Stop cannabis prohibition” site, an “End business license requirements” site, etc. If activists at a particular site want a specific leader, they could choose one, perhaps by election. Those most interested in each cause could use that site to coordinate with others working towards that end."

    I think that could work well, but I don't think it is necessary. There are always going to be disagreements within groups, but that still doesn't mean there shouldn't be leaders. Why can't someone step up and be a leader for Free Keene anymore than someone could be a leader for one of these fracture groups?

    As for your other comments about evaluating people on an individual level: as I said before, I agree that it is important to take individual opinions into account, but I think often when those people are voluntarily associated with a group that is working towards a common cause, the chance of there being significant differences in their thought processes is going to prove to be the exception, not the rule.

    In other words, I don't think that stating something like "all of MLK's followers were against ending racial inequality" is lazy, just as I don't think saying "Free Keene people want to end state aggression" is lazy. Convenience isn't always a matter of being lazy. Civil rights activists may not have agreed on how to go about ending civil rights abuses, but does that mean that it is lazy or ignorant to generalize these broader concepts, rather it is easier to get points across when looking at the larger picture, rather than analyzing each individual person's opinions. (That may be important to do as well, but it doesn't discredit collectivizing, either)

    There is definitely merit in evaluating broader socio-cultural trends and themes. This doesn't mean individuals shouldn't be responsible for their own actions, but it also doesn't eliminate the possibility of group responsibility. Humans are social by nature, to infer that everything must be qualified on a purely individual level is ignoring one of the key components of human life–that is human interaction and the results it yields.

    And as for the semantics, I know *I* certainly try to use words like 'some' or 'most' and others do as well, yet I still get reprimanded whenever I make any sort of suggestion that does not adhere to this individualistic mindset. I think it is more a matter of not having to be concerned with getting bogged down in rhetoric, and being able to carry out a conversation in a colloquial fashion.

    And in case you haven't noticed, even people like Ian are guilty of having collectivist mindsets…like just recently when he posted "Keene Sentinel Refuses to Publish Andrew Carroll's Letter." Was it the entire Keene Sentinel staff which refused to print the letter? Of course not. Would most people understand what Ian meant when he wrote that? Definitely. I called him out on it to show that it is really quite silly and often counter productive to expect everyone to have to tiptoe carefully around language when trying to express a pretty simple idea.

  19. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sometimes the scary thing here is that some people are actually following the instruction! —bil

  20. I think that could work well, but I don’t think it is necessary. There are always going to be disagreements within groups, but that still doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be leaders. Why can’t someone step up and be a leader for Free Keene anymore than someone could be a leader for one of these fracture groups?

    Not that I'm a "Free Keener" or anything, but personally, I don't feel there's anyone I'd be comfortable speaking for me on all issues. I think there are a lot of people in the same boat.

    Whereas, I'd be much more comfortable working under the banner of a particular person, on a particular issue, using a particular method.

    As for your other comments about evaluating people on an individual level: as I said before, I agree that it is important to take individual opinions into account, but I think often when those people are voluntarily associated with a group that is working towards a common cause, the chance of there being significant differences in their thought processes is going to prove to be the exception, not the rule.

    Welcome to the exception! (lol) Again, I'm not a "FKer", but I know my thought process is quite different from that of many others here … I'd wager most would say the same.

    In other words, I don’t think that stating something like “all of MLK’s followers were against ending racial inequality” is lazy, just as I don’t think saying “Free Keene people want to end state aggression” is lazy. Convenience isn’t always a matter of being lazy. Civil rights activists may not have agreed on how to go about ending civil rights abuses, but does that mean that it is lazy or ignorant to generalize these broader concepts, rather it is easier to get points across when looking at the larger picture, rather than analyzing each individual person’s opinions. (That may be important to do as well, but it doesn’t discredit collectivizing, either)

    Good point, and I recognize and appreciate your effort to put things in terms these crazy liberty folks will understand ;). MLK and Gandhi are definitely viewed as a role models to many in the liberty movement, especially that part of the liberty movement that chooses to use CD.

    I guess where I have a problem is when it goes beyond this, and unfair attributes are ascribed — ones not central to the movement, as your examples are, but rather ancillary and only shared by only a few. It'd be fair to say FK, as a movement, generally supports the method of civil disobedience. But it'd be unfair to say "FKers just want to party and run around topless" or something like that. These kinds of comments are really based on ignorance.

    There is definitely merit in evaluating broader socio-cultural trends and themes. This doesn’t mean individuals shouldn’t be responsible for their own actions, but it also doesn’t eliminate the possibility of group responsibility. Humans are social by nature, to infer that everything must be qualified on a purely individual level is ignoring one of the key components of human life–that is human interaction and the results it yields.

    I'd be careful with the idea of "group responsibility". Now, if the action of an individual is taken with the full support and endorsement of the strong majority of those in a movement, or the leaders of a movement, that action does reflect on the movement as a whole.

    But … to go back to our earlier example, if someone yells, "For MLK" while throwing a Molotov cocktail, despite the fact that MLK has specifically spoken against violence, do that man's actions reflect on MLK himself? Certainly not.

    And as for the semantics, I know *I* certainly try to use words like ‘some’ or ‘most’ and others do as well, yet I still get reprimanded whenever I make any sort of suggestion that does not adhere to this individualistic mindset. I think it is more a matter of not having to be concerned with getting bogged down in rhetoric, and being able to carry out a conversation in a colloquial fashion.

    I think it's important to be careful however — collectivism easily leads to bigotry. It'd be easier for me to just say, "Cops don't think for themselves", for example — but this phrase would have a very serious impact on people's attitudes. Now, instead of approaching a cop with the thought in mind, "I wonder if this is a cop who can think for himself, or one who blindly follows orders", one approaches a cop with the assumption that he/she cannot think for him/herself.

    Likewise, if people use general, universalized statements about liberty activists, it makes them unable to meet and understand any particular liberty activist as a unique individual.

    Remembering to take the exceptions into account when we speak of groups is very important, less we encourage pre-judgment and bigotry.

    And I'd argue police are a far, far more homogeneous group than liberty activists, so the generalizations are even less accurate.

    And in case you haven’t noticed, even people like Ian are guilty of having collectivist mindsets…like just recently when he posted “Keene Sentinel Refuses to Publish Andrew Carroll’s Letter.” Was it the entire Keene Sentinel staff which refused to print the letter? Of course not. Would most people understand what Ian meant when he wrote that? Definitely. I called him out on it to show that it is really quite silly and often counter productive to expect everyone to have to tiptoe carefully around language when trying to express a pretty simple idea.

    It is a bit different however, because the Sentinel is a business with a well ordered structure of authority. I don't think people would take Ian's title to mean that every person who works at the Sentinel did not want to print Andrew's letter — wheras a general statement about "FKers" or "Police" does judge every individual in that category.

  21. "Not that I’m a “Free Keener” or anything, but personally, I don’t feel there’s anyone I’d be comfortable speaking for me on all issues. I think there are a lot of people in the same boat."

    Well I think the fact that you're not a 'Free Keener' explains that at least a little.

    "It’d be fair to say FK, as a movement, generally supports the method of civil disobedience. But it’d be unfair to say “FKers just want to party and run around topless” or something like that. These kinds of comments are really based on ignorance."

    I think you here the former a lot more than the latter in all serious contexts, don't you?

    "But … to go back to our earlier example, if someone yells, “For MLK” while throwing a Molotov cocktail, despite the fact that MLK has specifically spoken against violence, do that man’s actions reflect on MLK himself? Certainly not."

    Of course it doesn't, but that is something that is in blatant opposition to what he was advocating. Some of the things people are upset about *aren't* in blatant opposition of what Free Keene advocates, yet attempts to differentiate those acts and what Free Keene supports are not always made. Not to mention, if someone *did* do that, I'm sure MLK would have had to speak out publicly to condemn those actions.

    "Remembering to take the exceptions into account when we speak of groups is very important, less we encourage pre-judgment and bigotry."

    Agreed, but I think the 'burden of proof' as it were lies on (in this case) Free Keene. It shouldn't be simply the responsibility of others to have to consciously try to determine all of the individual view points Free Keeners may hold, rather it is the responsibility of those Free Keeners to make their view points known if they don't want to be considered part of the general movement.

    "It is a bit different however, because the Sentinel is a business with a well ordered structure of authority. I don’t think people would take Ian’s title to mean that every person who works at the Sentinel did not want to print Andrew’s letter — wheras a general statement about “FKers” or “Police” does judge every individual in that category."

    I disagree. I think it is a completely comparable situation. The police force and Free Keene are both well ordered and fairly structured (at least on some accounts) what is about the Sentinel being a business with 'authority' that means it is ok to judge the entire group of people based on the actions of (likely) just one person? Ian's statement could just as easily have made people believe that the Sentinel is a biased business, when in fact it may have just been one person's bias. How is that any different than you suggesting that statements about 'the police' would create biases for people?

  22. Agreed, but I think the ‘burden of proof’ as it were lies on (in this case) Free Keene. It shouldn’t be simply the responsibility of others to have to consciously try to determine all of the individual view points Free Keeners may hold, rather it is the responsibility of those Free Keeners to make their view points known if they don’t want to be considered part of the general movement. ***WTF???…holy_canole, what you're saying is that a website / blog post has the burden of proof???…I sure hope that's a strong website, to carry a heavy load like the BURDEN OF PROOF!!!…Maybe, just maybe, holy_canole, what you MOST don't understand, is the fact that you just don't understand…From reading your many posts on here, your constant wandering off-topic, and your tendency to over-personalize EVERYTHING, I can only conclude that you just don't "get it", you only THINK you "get it" Me???…Well, I don't think you understand at all. But please keep trying. Maybe someday you will finally realize, that the World was not designed either by you, or for you. You only get to live here for a few decades, before you have to give your body back, and leave. It's called "DEATH", and, it sucks no matter how old you are when it happens.

  23. I am the King of Keene. I am a foul-mouthed, arrogant asshole. I hate deeply, and love even more deeply..I am dirty, unshaven, and human. I can and will say the most offensive things necessary to break through your mental blocks. I care. I don't care. I'm weird. I'm happy…I'm normal. I'm exactly the same as you. I'm completely different. I think I'm cool. Yes, I can criticize myself better than *YOU* can criticize me…So what???…Anything you people want to add???…

  24. tKoK,

    After the hateful things you said about gay people on the other board, I am inclined to never read one of your posts again. You can't 'hate deeply but love even more deeply' when you say things like that, sorry.

  25. "holy_canole", just because *YOU CAN'T*, doesn't mean *I CAN'T*…That's a prime example of what I was saying. You proved my point. You really, really, really, just don't understand. I don't have any idea who you are, but based on what I've read in *YOUR* posts, you are a white woman, less than 30 years old, and born and raised mostly in the Northeast United States. Correct so far, right???…"I'm sorry that you can't wrap you head around the fact that you just don't understand"…give it a few years.~tKoK. PS: I don't care if you, or anybody ever, or never, reads what I write here. I am supremely SELF-ASSURED. ~tKoK.

  26. I am supremely SELF-ASSURED.
    You are supremely SELF-ASSED.

  27. kok,

    Hitler was "supremely self assured" no(?)

    seemed like he was anywayz

    lol

  28. being "supremely self assured" and being WRONG is not a very good combo

  29. David and david, you're both correct. I am self-assured *AND* self-assed…but whether I'm wrong or not is strictly a matter of opinion. I'm not trying to be "right", so what do I care if *YOU* think I'm "wrong"???…Are you my *JUDGE*, now???…

  30. …already had my ego stroked today, but if you folks wanna keep yakkin' about me, FEEL FREE…~tKoK.

  31. Its not Opinion its fact.

    peace

  32. #

    David on Wed, 20th Oct 2010 7:22 pm

    Its not Opinion its fact.

    peace

    Remind me again, what "fact" are you talking about???…~tKoK.

  33. i forget……….lol

    its been a while

    :-)

  34. …ain't data fack!~tKoK.

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