The FSP trend

October 9, 2011 by Skeptikos
Filed under: Data, Free State Project

Courtesy of Bazil on the Free State Project forum:

(click to enlarge)

Bazil notes that “Even if [monthly sign-ups] don’t continue to increase we should see the 20k mark by the end of the decade,” triggering thousands of liberty-lovers to move to New Hampshire en masse.

theKINGofKEENE

Whatever…not like i didn't try…
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

Do you even know what mutualism is?

http://mutualist.org/

http://tinyurl.com/5r2psu2 (French wikipedia has a much better explanation IMO.)
theKINGofKEENE

Julia, Julia, Julia…yes, I read the definition at mutualist.org….sounds to me, like "mutualism" is the most socially acceptable word for "anarchist", that Prudhon & the American guy, (Warren???) could come up with….The French explanation may indeed be better – IN*FRENCH* – but translated / translaughtered into English, it reads like one of "david-keene"s' posts…in other words, *GIBBERISH*…

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I still say, that the BASIC*IDEAS of Capitalism are sound, and sustainable…Especially if we can shit-can that whole "maximizing short-term profit" crap, and scrap usery / compound interest. "Supply-and-Demand" also needs to be re-framed as a guideline, not the Commandment which it currently is. Capitalism would not be as successful as it is, if it had nothing going for it…It's future is so bleak, because it has been carried far beyond its' intended limits. As it is now, Capitalism is NOT sustainable. -BUT-, by replacing "maximizing long-term sustainability", for "maximize short-term profit", things would improve. Keep posting, though…I'm still trying…~tKoK.
theKINGofKEENE

FYI: the "unemployment rate" only counts those who are actively seeking work. It doesn't count the elderly, disabled, or discouraged. If it counted *POTENTIAL* workers, the unemployment rate would be at least double, if not triple, what it is now…And, how does one account for all the guys – mostly – but a lot of women, too – who have 2, 3, or even more jobs…???…I know several guys whose *part-time*jobs would keep me happy…as would actually seeing THIS:

Julia wrote: "Of course, that’s going to change once the mutualists show up and turn NH into a free-market socialist paradise."…or were you only joking about THAT, too…???…
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

So what do you think of mutualism, and how do you think it compares to capitalism? Would you rather live under mutualism (completely free AND equal exchange) or capitalism (i.e. wage slavery)?
theKINGofKEENE

I think that's a false choice, with questionable, if not also false, premises. The brand of Capitalism we have now does indeed create "wage slavery", and "debt slavery", and lots of "abandoned externalities" – costs of cleaning up a toxic waste site, for example, that are not paid for by the investor, or the system…They are passed on to the consumer, or ignored…But it doesn't have to be that way. Is *MUTUALIST*CAPITALISM* such a stretch for your eye-magic-nation…???…

Like I said, that "translation" from French that you link.posted, came out of the translator as GIBBERISH,,,
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

" Is *MUTUALIST*CAPITALISM* such a stretch for your eye-magic-nation…???…"

Capitalism can never be mutual. Under capitalism, the boss takes everything and pays the worker a fraction of what the worker produced. Under mutualism, workers receive the full product of their labor.
theKINGofKEENE

OK, so far so good….So, under "mutualism", *WHO* would collect / disburse that "full product" of their labor? Wouldn't that be a "worker-boss"???…And, I agree that your description is a fair one, for how things ARE, but that doesn't mean that is how they *HAVE*TO be…The "boss" COULD keep only a small percentage more than the other workers. Bosses don't HAVE*TO "take everything"….You keep confusing "how things ARE", with "how things MUST*BE*…The 2 are NOT the same…I would rather see American Capitalism de-corrupted, and reformed. That, I believe, IS do-able…And, with any luck, the OCCUPY folks will begin to do just that…Wait till it hits critical mass!…

(PS: *WHY* can Capitalism NEVER be mutual. Please give us a CONCISE definition of "mutual", as you're using it here…THNX, Julia…
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

" *WHO* would collect / disburse that “full product” of their labor? Wouldn’t that be a “worker-boss”???…A"

The workers do themselves. You should check it out more.
http://freekeene.com/ Skeptikos

Julia:

"Trust me, the statistics in this case fail and only tell half the story."

Trust you?? I've been living here for three years, I can trust my own judgment!

When I first moved, towards the beginning of the recession, yeah, it was tough. (As it was all over the country.) The last few years, though, from what I've seen– and personally experienced– there is no lack of jobs. I've had an easy time finding work, and so have the people around me.

If you've spent much of your time outside of NH in these last few years, perhaps that is coloring your judgment. Perhaps it's also different in Keene than in your part of the state.

Also, you talk about people working in Boston as if that supports your case. It doesn't. People who work in Boston, but live in NH, are still NH residents. If they're employed, that means that they have been able to find work while living in NH.

The fact is that NH has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. It also has one of the highest average incomes in the country. It's hard to believe that this could be the case if there weren't any jobs.
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

"Trust you?? I’ve been living here for three years, I can trust my own judgment!"

I've been living in NH for most of my life. I've seen standards of living go way down for one portion of the population and way up for another. I saw the entire region where I live(d) be bought up by developers (I'm not Derrick Jensen, but the expansion of the suburbs for rich Boston yuppies into what was once forest made me want to puke). I have friends who had to move back up to NH with their parents and none of them can find jobs in the area. Maybe the Keene area is different, but there really isn't much opportunity for young people in the Merrimack Valley, unless Dunkin Donuts or the Mall of NH is your ideal career path.

"Also, you talk about people working in Boston as if that supports your case. It doesn’t. People who work in Boston, but live in NH, are still NH residents. If they’re employed, that means that they have been able to find work while living in NH."

Yeah, and that work is *located* in Boston, not NH. Tell me what kinds of things NH is producing. Where are the factories? Where are the jobs which create actual value? Go talk to people living in NH outside of the Keene area and ask them about the job market in the state.
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

The reason I bring that up is, if you work in Mass but live in NH you'll be getting twice the tax burden, since you'll be paying Mass income tax AND property tax in NH.