Ridley Reports on Free Manch vs. Free Keene

November 19, 2011 by Ian
Filed under: Free Manch, Manchester, Video

Dave Ridley reports on the launch of Free Manch. He interviews one of their bloggers, Kellie about the differences between Free Manch and Free Keene:

Bill

Thank you Ian, for posting a video that shows us what other Liberty Activists think of "FreeKeene".

Like-minded people are laughing at you and saying they don't want their movement to be like yours…….. Time to re-evaluate your methods.
http://freetalklive.com/ Ian

LOL
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

Let me know where all Manch's left-libertarians are at.
david-keene

y do u want to know where "left libertarians " r?
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

Because I like a lot of their ideas/strategies. And they're anti-capitalist.
david-keene

I must have missed where the fk activists "pissed off business owners" …I have been here.. Hmm (?)
Bob Constantine

Not that it is entirely relevant to the discussion but somebody should point out that the "fire walking" incident actually ocurred in Free Grafton at a bon fire there…carry on.
http://propagandalalaland.blogspot.com/ Julia

Funny, because most of the free staters I knew who lived in Grafton have since left the village for Manchester or Nashua.
jefFREE

I tried FreeKeene this summer. Non-FreeKeeners at PorcFest advised me to try another part of NH such as Manchester but didn't say why. I soon found out.

At first things were going well and I was happy. But then there was the "knife incident". A "friend of the FSP" in Keene decided to attack a friend of mine with a rather large knife, in the process of restraining her, I almost got sliced open.

When I talked to Free Staters about this the next day, I was met with mockery and indifference:

"Ha ha ha. I'll have to give her a hard time about that the next time I see her."

"Ha ha ha. We'll have to have an intervention."

*At an ad hoc meeting on how to deal with emergencies:

"Who is she? I want to know for my own safefy?" (I didn't mention her name. I didn't need to. People knew her as she had a history of violence with knives. Once the person's name was mentioned, the person asking the above questions, who was leading the discussion, got up and left the room as if I had violated some taboo.)

"Just move on…Stay away from the KAC if you need to."

"You need to empathize with her."

I was floored by these stupid, indifferent, hypocritical responses. Some of these people are key FK figures. How dare people daily lecture cops, judges and other statists about their acts of "violence against peaceful people" and then tolerate violence in their midst.

I was so angry I left for a week or so to clear my head. The only thing that happened when I returned was that the attacker apologized to me, which was great, but that was not the problem. She is not a FSer and is therefore not a hypocrite. She does not preach nonviolence. Her FSer friends who tolerate her behavior and the violence of other "friends of the FSP" are the hypocrites and are enablers. I guess women and dealers get a pass on the non-violence part of the FSP, which is what I had been told.

I am not sharing this in the hopes of getting some sort of apology or affecting some sort of change in FK. Groups, once established, take on a life of their own and rarely change significantly or for the better. I am sharing this to warn people who are contemplately making a move to Keene. Nobody told me what was wrong with FK. I am telling you. People have to go through a lot to pack up and move to participate in the FSP: saving money, quitting their jobs, saying goodbye to family and friends, finding a place to live, finding a job, etc. To think that FKers ask people to do all that and then demonstrate such indifference and hypocrisy is unconscionable. I'll give Manchester a try.
Lpviper

Yeah, you're making a real difference, JefFREE. You should spend your whole life running away from things you find distatsteful.

Or you could confront those people about what you see them as having done wrong and have a discussion. Take a gun in case this crazy person gets ideas about attacking you again.

Part of the problem with the whole society we live in today is that nobody wants to be responsible for anything anymore, and that includes their own safety.

You, jefFREE, have demonstrated this beautifully with your exaggerated tail-tuck and run to Manchester.

You don't want to help fix society or create a society that you can live peaceably in, you want somebody else to do it for you.

Methinks Manchester won't be your last stop. For some reason the lazy are never contented…
david-keene

Jeff is wrong
david-keene

Maybe that did happen ,jeff, but why are the THE VAST MAJORITY of people that that doesn't happen to. You talk like that IS keene. When it was a bazaar anomaly.

I have been here for over 10 years and have never had to deal with any knife wielding person EVER . Don't expect to either.
keene-david

never say "never', "david-keene"…This dirty, rotten, crooked fucking little town

has a way of surprising people…

—————————————————————————————————-

Is it so hard to accept, that yes, "SOME*PEOPLE" *DO* get a special pass for various behaviors…

No, I am unaware of the specific incident that "JefFREE" describes,

but the way the group MIS-handled it, DOES sound like the SOP for that little group

of wayward children…

Anything that even remotely "threatens" the group, is either dismissed or

ignored, then, as here, mis-handled. Sad, but true…
david-keene

what business's got pissed off Mr. Ridley
david-keene

I think it is inaccurate to say "business owners" got pissed.

Because fk / free keeners or whatever have zero affect on any ones business…OH , they do :they bring GROUPS of people into business establishments…

I think what Dave said is misleading.
jefFREE

Lpviper, you are simply too ignorant and immature to actually spend time correcting. Your thinking is so debased that there is really no way to help you. If you really cared about fixing society, you wouldn't attack a person who has taken a stand against wanton violence. Sometimes the best way to fix a problem is to vote with your feet, especially when you are a new person in a community with no clout and you see the futility of beating the dead horse.

Hopefully, Lpviper one day you will move beyond your mental diapers, you shithead, but, in the meantime, thanks for proving my point that Free Keeners are hypocritical, not willing to deal with problems in their midst, and unwilling to change. I presented you with a problem. Instead of acknowlding it and asking what you could do, you shot the messenger. So, go back to your bong and forget about reality, you ignorant, young punk.

David-Keene, simply saying "Jeff is wrong" says nothing. What's more, you missed the entire point of my post. I did not leave Keene because of a knife wielder. I left Free Keene because of the hypocrisy that pervades the society there. Through that one incident and the responses I got from several people, I saw the heart and soul of Free Keene for what it really is. I am old enough and experienced enough to know that people and groups do not change for the better. I am not going to beat my head against the wall trying to get some wacktivists to stop being hypocrites. Hypocrites are a waste of time.
Lpviper

Wrong is wrong, jefFREE. A stand for what is right will always pan out in the end, well, as long as there is no government to declare wrong right and enforce it so.

The name calling is fine, I probably have been or am all of those things. Just words, bud.

My opinion stands, and your opinion of me is irrelevant. Move to manchester if u want, I don't care. Just don't act like you left because the problems you encountered are not fixable.

All the namecalling in the world won't make your intellectual dishonesty suddenly honest
Ron

Lpviper, JefFREE's point is that the people running freekeene are hypocrites, and are not open to criticism. How can a hypocritical, closed-minded group make a difference? And don't you DARE question JefFREE's intelectual honesty. I've known him my entire life, and he has taken countless stands against things that are wrong for decades, oftentimes when he was the only one daring to do so. Nothing he said was dishonest. He left keene in disgust, because the fake libertarians there are hypocrites and phonies. They let violence go when the violent person is one of their dealers. Take all the stands against the govt. you want, but when a group of so-called libertarians tolerates a blatant violation of the non-agression principle, well, such a group is pretty worthless. You deserved to be called a shithead because you are attacking a victim of violent agression and defending a group that laughed said violence off for the sake of their own convienience.
jefFREE

LpWiper,

Thanks again for proving my point: FK is unwilling to deal with its own internal problems. I raised relevant points. You responded by using ad hominem tactics calling me lazy and cowardly. Evidently, you've been drinking the Keene Koolaid and are unable to think for yourself. You have demonstrated the fact that FKers mindlessly defend their group and are unwilling to face legitimate criticism and change. Then you have the audacity to criticize me for leaving and tell me I should stay and waste (my valuable) time trying to get Keene Koolaid drinkers like you to listen to reason and stop being hypocrites.

You are either against offensive violence or you are not. You cannot make exceptions for women or dealers. In fact, every "friend of the FSP" dealer I encountered there was a violent person. These people openly admitted to not being a part of the FSP and did not hide their violent attitudes but were still fully welcomed in the FK community by people who daily risk going to jail to stand against the "violence" of judges and cops. That makes no sense and people, like you, who act that way or tolerate such behavior are not worthy of my valuable time, energy or skills.

Again, I have raised this issue, and will continue to do so, for one reason only: to warn people considering moving to Keene about the reality there. Thank you LpWiper for proving me right by your lack of accountability and unwillingness to stand against violence and hypocrisy.
david-keene

oic
david-keene

interesting
Lpviper

This bullshit is exactly why I will probably never move to New Hampshire at all, let alone Keene.

jefFREE talks about no accountability or effort to correct violent behavior and this and that, but doesn't name the attacker, makes no effort to shame her publicly or ostracize her, and runs away to the next town.

Alls I'm sayin is, there's fucked up people everywhere, dude. Someday you'll have to make a public stand for what is right, unless you want to hide hide hide.

What is the violent woman's name, jefFREE? Why is it such a big damn secret? Ever even HEARD of ostracism?

Or would you just like to get your pals on here to call me some more names?

Pfui!
Lpviper

And, RON, I never defend any group. Your brave friend jefFREE never named any of the people who laughed off the aggressive violence woman, either. Who are those people, jefFREE? Why do you not hold them to account, here in public, where all could read and some be shamed?

Why indeed?
Lpviper

Come on, jefFREE, grow a pair. Where's your tag team partner ron? Don't you guys have a take, or do you just like to snipe as you run tailtucked away from confrontation?
Lpviper

OK then, you guys obviously aren't equipped to live in a voluntary society. Let me know when you grow a pair between you.
jefFREE

LpWiper,

I sympathize with you considering your inability to read very well or accurately analyze situations, so I'll try to make this simple. Hopefully, you will grow a pair of brain cells and be able to understand what I am trying to say.

If you reread what I originally wrote, you will see that I only stated that I did not mention the woman's name during the 3rd encounter when I mentioned what happened. It was during an ad hoc meeting about dealing with emergencies. I was trying to see how Keeniacs would deal with such a situation and hoped they would do something. I did not need to mention her name. They readily guessed it. I did mention her name the first two times I told people about her.

Yes, shame and ostracism were what I was after, but nobody cared or wanted to do anything. The person who I protected didn't even want to ostracize her.

Regarding naming the people who wouldn't deal with this, why do you think I raised the issue here? I am naming the people – Free Keene!! I gave a great many people in FK a chance to deal with the problem they didn't. That tells me the character of the community. I am telling those who will listen about that character.

As a new person in the group, I did all I could. The only thing that gave me any clout in the group to critize it was the incident and my involvement in it. If long-standing members of a group don't care about a serious problem, it is wise for a new person to leave. One, you need to understand something about people that you apparently haven't learned yet, people generally do not change. When you find that a group of people have a character that you find unacceptable, you move on and find a group with acceptable character. Two, one of the most effective ways to protest wrong-doing is with your feet. You mentioned it yourself: ostracism. There's also the boycott. I left as an act of protest. You can call it whatever you want. That's your ignorant, incorrect opinion.

You asked to be called names by acting like an asshole. Don't whine about it. Grow a pair. Take what you deserve.
THEkingOFkeene

I didn't want to post to this topic, but the CAPTCHA code is my lucky numbers for today, so here's what I think…

I don't know of this specific incident, but,

knowing as many "Freeweenies" as I do,

it DOES sound like how they deal with things…

We are ALL hypocrites, sometimes,

but "Freeweenies" take hypocrisy to new levels…

It's the inherent cognitive dissonance of the group,

that I think "jefFREE" is talking about…

Because the group lacks any kind of coherent vision,

beyond a vague, narcissistic, juvenile desire for "freedom",

(however that manifests itself…)

any act is either accepted, or not, based on what looks like an arbitrary standard

and so, the worst behaviour is tolerated in the name of "freedom"…

It is NOT, as has been well shown here, "anarchy", but rather,

it is *CHAOS*…

VIOLENT*CHAOS…

"FreeKeene" had *SUCH*PROMISE*, such promise…

but, now, after all that has happened……….

At least they have shown the world, the incompetence and corruption rampant here in keene….

Those Burke-the-Jerk t-shirts *ALMOST* make "Freekeene" worth it…

That "Freekeene" has been allowed to *FESTER*HERE*, says more about how truly clueless and incompetent the local "system" really is…

It's like voting for Obama in 2008…

McCain & Sarah Palin would have been even worse…

…MAYBE!

~TkOk.
THEkingOFkeene

To be fair, though,

NAME NAMES, "jefFREE"…

Name names…

*DIE*DORRIE*DIE*

(you ASKED for that one, girl…

~TkOk.
Ron

I'm more prepared than you ever will be LPwiper. Learn to actually analyze and under stand what someone is saying. JefFree's problem is with how the Keeniacs dealt with the situation. They were made aware of the situation and gave the woman a free pass to be violent because she is a drug dealer. They put their pot ahead of their principles. The keeniacs are set in their ways and are not going to change. If you think otherwise, you are naive. It is a waste of time to try to change thick-headed fools set in their ways and whose minds are closed to criticism. And don't get all prissy because people don't respond to you right away, princess. The world doesn't revolve around you.