Keene Police Shoot and Kill Burglar

According to the Keene Sentinel:

A man was shot by police and killed after a pursuit in Keene late Tuesday night, authorities said.

The incident began at Diversified Computers at 255 West St. in Keene, where police were called for a burglary complaint, according to a news release from the N.H. Attorney General’s Office.

When officers got there, they saw at least one suspect on the roof of the building. Two people fleeing the area were arrested after a short pursuit, authorities said.

The third person left the scene in a car and was pursued by officers to Marlboro Street, where he parked near the corner of Marlboro and Prescott streets and left the vehicle, authorities said. After an officer briefly pursued the man on foot, he got back in his car and attempted to escape, and two officers fired at the vehicle, killing the man, authorities said.

The car crashed head-on into a telephone pole and one neighbor on Marlboro Street said he heard five gunshots.

Too bad the Bear Cat wasn’t here to protect Keene from this situation.

Ok, bad joke considering a man lost his life and for what?

Let’s do something the Keene Sentinel didn’t do and look at this from a logical stand point. Sure robbery, and/or stealing, is wrong but is the punishment death? I don’t believe so and suspect most people would refrain from killing those who steal from them (unless threatened with their lives in the process, as in armed robbery). I say this because people would be unable to recoup losses if the thief was dead. Plus, most business have cameras (I suspect this one does considering it’s near a bank attached) meaning it wouldn’t be hard to identify a person without the (government) police. Once you had proof via video – or witness/evidence – you could try to recoup losses or share the information publicly and let others know that peson X has stolen from you. I know I wouldn’t do business with a known thief and I bet others would do the same. Regardless, there are several ways to hold someone accountable before taking their life.

Heck, without the government’s monopoly on protection this business could have had it’s own Officer Short (Keene Police officer) on duty – deterring theft in the first place. So you have to ask the question.

Why did the Keene police feel the need to chase a man through Keene in their cars and then on foot? The police commonly pull people over for speeding, rolling stop signs and other traffic violations, citing these actions as dangerous to other drivers on the road. Yet, when unable to prevent crime, as is commonly perceived, or catch a criminal in the act, what do the police do? They increase the danger by driving recklessly through the streets of Keene in police cars. What did they have to gain? They already had two individuals. who were accomplices in the burglary, in custody and surely the police could have gotten them to give up their buddy. Or, as anyone who’s been to court, Keene prosecutors love to offer plea deals to those willing to provide information or testimony for the state. The police know this, yet they decided take action that made Keene less safe anyways.

When the man continued to flee, the police shot him. This article mentions nothing about the ‘suspect’ attempting to run over the police officers but I’m sure that will be the story. Most will not only believe the police version of this but they’ll justify the officer’s actions because this man attempted to rob a store and then flee. Yet, the problem really starts with the government’s control over the valued service of protection. It was also magnified by the officer actions to chase a suspect they had no reason to chase.

Believe it or not the police are commonly bring violence into peaceful Keene and if you want to end it, you have to end the government’s control over our protection. Allow Keene Police to work directly with homeowners and businesses for a rate they decide, for services they need. Some may think that’s crazy but some think it’s crazy for police to fire guns in the streets at petty robbers.

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47 Comments

  1. ok now lets look at it from an ACTUAL logical stand point rather than Adam’s peaceful ass talk. A fleeing felon is a dangerous felon. A dangerous felon in unpredictable. It is one thing to steal/rob, but it is a totally another thing to flee. When you flee/evade capture, your judgement is clouded with the need to escape usually by any means necessary. Do you know how many fleeing robbery suspects commit vehicular manslaughter or attempted vehicular manslaughter? At a time like this only a fool like Adam would risk the innocent people’s safety and let a crook get away.

  2.  Agreed.  Unless you want the police to start arresting people for thought crime or pre-crime like in Minority Report, they will necessarily be *reacting* to crimes that people commit.  This is how I prefer police to behave in most circumstances (ie, I would prefer them not to set up random, suspicionless roadblocks to search my vehicle).  I think Adam prefers this too, but for some reason has become so blinded by the anti-police, anti-state attitude around Free Keene that he isn’t thinking rationally.

    That said, who knows if the shooting was justified.  I didn’t see it, and neither did Adam.  Whenever you steal something and flee, I think getting shot at is a reasonable expectation for response by the police or otherwise.  The chase was certainly justified.  It wasn’t as if the police were going after some non-violent offender.  These people are/were criminals caught in the act (as far as I know).  Chasing them down and capturing them is exactly what the police should be doing.

  3.  Agreed.  Unless you want the police to start arresting people for thought crime or pre-crime like in Minority Report, they will necessarily be *reacting* to crimes that people commit.  This is how I prefer police to behave in most circumstances (ie, I would prefer them not to set up random, suspicionless roadblocks to search my vehicle).  I think Adam prefers this too, but for some reason has become so blinded by the anti-police, anti-state attitude around Free Keene that he isn’t thinking rationally.

    That said, who knows if the shooting was justified.  I didn’t see it, and neither did Adam.  Whenever you steal something and flee, I think getting shot at is a reasonable expectation for response by the police or otherwise.  The chase was certainly justified.  It wasn’t as if the police were going after some non-violent offender.  These people are/were criminals caught in the act (as far as I know).  Chasing them down and capturing them is exactly what the police should be doing.

  4.  ii dont think people should be killed for a smart phone or 100 smart phones..

  5. ii dont think people should be killed for a smart phone nor 100 smart phones..
    I dont care for the kneejerk stamp of approval for murder that the trolls are doing ,mind you, again,WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS

  6. how is a fleeing felon being a dangerous felon not fact? Kid, even if I said the sky was blue you would still say it wasn’t fact. your just talking out of your ass because your as blind as the rest.

  7. If you are in the process of being robbed, then you have every right to kill the person robbing you, even if all that will get from you or home is $1 worth of stuff.

    When faced with a criminal, you don’t know what they will do to you, (many robberies end with the owner of the property or who ever else is in the way of the criminal, injured or killed)

    Matching the force of a violent criminal is stupid, if the criminal does not have a gun or is not armed, does not mean that you should not use deadly force against them. You can easily be killed in a fist fight.

    An individual attempts to rob me, means they gave up any right to life that they have, I wont take the risk of using a less effective means of defense because a criminal has a slightly lower offensive rating.

    A gun ends the threat of a violent criminal immediately, while less lethal actions such as attempting to restrain violent criminal, puts you at significantly greater risk of getting injured or killed.

  8. If you are in the process of being robbed, then you have every right to kill the person robbing you, even if all that will get from you or home is $1 worth of stuff.

    When faced with a criminal, you don’t know what they will do to you, (many robberies end with the owner of the property or who ever else is in the way of the criminal, injured or killed)

    Matching the force of a violent criminal is stupid, if the criminal does not have a gun or is not armed, does not mean that you should not use deadly force against them. You can easily be killed in a fist fight.

    An individual attempts to rob me, means they gave up any right to life that they have, I wont take the risk of using a less effective means of defense because a criminal has a slightly lower offensive rating.

    A gun ends the threat of a violent criminal immediately, while less lethal actions such as attempting to restrain violent criminal, puts you at significantly greater risk of getting injured or killed.

    If more people started using deadly force to stop things like robberies, you would see less robberies because the criminals will have to think “I want to rob that store or house but I know that if I do, they will try to kill me, so am I willing to give up my life for that wallet, or that TV?”

  9.  if someone busted into your house right now and began steal your things, if you had a gun, what would you do?

    If the criminal had only a knife, would you go and grab a knife also to match their weapon? If the criminal was unarmed, would you get into a fist fight and risk the criminal being a better fighter and kill you?, or will you just go with the option that will allow you to defend your self and your property with the least amount of risk to your self?

    Someone robbing you already indicates malicious intent and clouded judgment, and thus you don’t know what they will decide to do, the criminal can easily decide at a moments notice that he or she does not want any witnesses (at which point, is a cellphone or some other random item worth more than your life. By not using any means at your disposal to protect your self, you could very well lose your life over a few dollars by simply complying with the criminal and the criminal deciding that dead people make less effective witnesses to a crime)

  10.  if someone busted into your house right now and began steal your things, if you had a gun, what would you do?

    If the criminal had only a knife, would you go and grab a knife also to match their weapon? If the criminal was unarmed, would you get into a fist fight and risk the criminal being a better fighter and kill you?, or will you just go with the option that will allow you to defend your self and your property with the least amount of risk to your self?

    Someone robbing you already indicates malicious intent and clouded judgment, and thus you don’t know what they will decide to do, the criminal can easily decide at a moments notice that he or she does not want any witnesses (at which point, is a cellphone or some other random item worth more than your life. By not using any means at your disposal to protect your self, you could very well lose your life over a few dollars by simply complying with the criminal and the criminal deciding that dead people make less effective witnesses to a crime)

  11. Do you know how hard it is to post nothing? People shouting at each other both thinking they’re right – it’s so exciting.  Apparently, it’s impossible to not post anything. 

  12. Do you know how hard it is to post nothing? People shouting at each other both thinking they’re right – it’s so exciting.  Apparently, it’s impossible to not post anything. 

  13. The Keene police seem to look for trouble, anything….some people I know in Keene say they get harassed by police over nothing and one of then does nothing wrong….he’s just too nerdy to ever get in trouble but a really nice honest person. One guy told me some little older cop with a mustache treats people awful so they gave him the nickname, “LITTLE HITLER” and they don’t trust him at all. They say he just looks for things even if nothings there, wanting to stir you to.
    Police need to be “resident friendly” if they are to relate and work for/with them….when they bucked up their authority, that’s when residents buck back.
    If police gave respect to the public, they would get respect back; at least by the majority.
    My grandparents told me in their day, police were known to be helpful…they were friendly, would stop and chat to town residents….they were ones a child would go up to if lost…but now, kids run from the cops…and the elderly look the other way, for police have damaged their image….by their actions and overreacting with authority which sometimes appears to go to their heads….
    but then there are still a few…which are good guys…..really there, wanting to do whats right, to help, to serve…and those, I respect.

  14. The Keene police seem to look for trouble, anything….some people I know in Keene say they get harassed by police over nothing and one of then does nothing wrong….he’s just too nerdy to ever get in trouble but a really nice honest person. One guy told me some little older cop with a mustache treats people awful so they gave him the nickname, “LITTLE HITLER” and they don’t trust him at all. They say he just looks for things even if nothings there, wanting to stir you to.
    Police need to be “resident friendly” if they are to relate and work for/with them….when they bucked up their authority, that’s when residents buck back.
    If police gave respect to the public, they would get respect back; at least by the majority.
    My grandparents told me in their day, police were known to be helpful…they were friendly, would stop and chat to town residents….they were ones a child would go up to if lost…but now, kids run from the cops…and the elderly look the other way, for police have damaged their image….by their actions and overreacting with authority which sometimes appears to go to their heads….
    but then there are still a few…which are good guys…..really there, wanting to do whats right, to help, to serve…and those, I respect.

  15. Don’t most police usually pursue a chase after a fleeing suspect……rather than stand with guns watching as the person starts driving away? Then to shoot 6 to 8 times AFTER the suspect crashes…..???? Just don’t get this…..where’s the police training?

  16. Don’t most police usually pursue a chase after a fleeing suspect……rather than stand with guns watching as the person starts driving away? Then to shoot 6 to 8 times AFTER the suspect crashes…..???? Just don’t get this…..where’s the police training?

  17. “The Keene police seem to look for trouble”

    Right, because they were just driving around PRAYING that they would find three people cutting a whole in the roof of Diversified Computers so that they could send them on a high speed chase that ends up in a man dead and a resulting department investigation, trial, etc.

    You’re right, this really was just the police stirring up trouble….

  18. “The Keene police seem to look for trouble”

    Right, because they were just driving around PRAYING that they would find three people cutting a whole in the roof of Diversified Computers so that they could send them on a high speed chase that ends up in a man dead and a resulting department investigation, trial, etc.

    You’re right, this really was just the police stirring up trouble….

  19. Exactly what I’ve been trying to tell these people. Yet they don’t listen. Its all about risk. Are you going to take that risk? Are you going to risk the lives of others because of someones clouded judgement? Hellz to the NO.

  20. Exactly what I’ve been trying to tell these people. Yet they don’t listen. Its all about risk. Are you going to take that risk? Are you going to risk the lives of others because of someones clouded judgement? Hellz to the NO.

  21.   nothing you said is to the point…pretty  sure you are missing the point..  What you say isn’t relevant …no offence

  22.   nothing you said is to the point…pretty  sure you are missing the point..  What you say isn’t relevant …no offence

  23. quote :”It wasn’t as if the police were going after some non-violent offender.”
      and you know this HOW ,may I ask? Answer is :you don’t you are making a jump.
        You have no clue about that .. …Yet you state it as fact…. That the cops were violent is indisputable

  24. quote :”It wasn’t as if the police were going after some non-violent offender.”
      and you know this HOW ,may I ask? Answer is :you don’t you are making a jump.
        You have no clue about that .. …Yet you state it as fact…. …
    The cops,on the other hand, were the utmost in violent behavior:they killed a man….That the cops were violent is indisputable

  25. What I meant was that this was not some consensual act that they were being chased and arrested for.  There was clearly resistance involved as the thief fled, and it’s possible that he was going to use the car to run over an officer or other person.  I don’t know.  I just don’t think that this guy getting shot is obviously an abuse of police power, either.  These people were serious criminals.  They were using machinery to cut open a roof and had already stolen a vehicle:

    “The prosecutor said it was a sophisticated burglary operation and tools
    were used to cut through the roof of the building. Court documents said a
    minivan stolen from Stratham was backed up to the store.”

    http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/30911474/detail.html

  26. What I meant was that this was not some consensual act that they were being chased and arrested for.  There was clearly resistance involved as the thief fled, and it’s possible that he was going to use the car to run over an officer or other person.  I don’t know.  I just don’t think that this guy getting shot is obviously an abuse of police power, either.  These people were serious criminals.  They were using machinery to cut open a roof and had already stolen a vehicle:

    “The prosecutor said it was a sophisticated burglary operation and tools
    were used to cut through the roof of the building. Court documents said a
    minivan stolen from Stratham was backed up to the store.”

    http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/30911474/detail.html

  27.  yea….i think the crooks…they may have thought small town keene would be easy pickings…..not so much….

  28.  yea….i think the crooks…they may have thought small town keene would be easy pickings…..not so much….

  29. “if someone busted into your house right now and began steal your things, if you had a gun, what would you do?”

    Not a damn thing, if he didn’t offer any physical violence against me.  If I were to attempt to use a gun to protect my property, the police would come and attack me, because that would be grossly illegal.  You are only legally-justified in using lethal force to defend yourself against someone intent upon murdering, raping, or committing certain other specific, very-violent crimes against you.

    If I kill a burglar who has not offered any threat of violence, I can expect to be charged, tried, and convicted of murder.

    Apparently, their silly costumes means that doesn’t happen to them…

  30. “if someone busted into your house right now and began steal your things, if you had a gun, what would you do?”

    Not a damn thing, if he didn’t offer any physical violence against me.  If I were to attempt to use a gun to protect my property, the police would come and attack me, because that would be grossly illegal.  You are only legally-justified in using lethal force to defend yourself against someone intent upon murdering, raping, or committing certain other specific, very-violent crimes against you.

    If I kill a burglar who has not offered any threat of violence, I can expect to be charged, tried, and convicted of murder.

    Apparently, their silly costumes means that doesn’t happen to them…

  31. You really shouldn’t be giving out advice.  Someone following your advice would be convicted of murder.

  32. You really shouldn’t be giving out advice.  Someone following your advice would be convicted of murder.

  33.     First of all, Burglary and Robbery are two different crimes. It is best to critique or Monday morning quarterback a scenario/incident by applying the correct law. No offense intended.
                                                              
                                    Generalization of each crime are as follows:                                                
          
        Burglary applies to entering a building or structure with the intent to commit a crime therein such as theft, assault, criminal mischief so on and so forth. I think you get the picture.

        Robbery involves the unlawful taking of property from a person (pay attention) by using force and placing that person in fear during the taking of that persons property.

        As far as this unfortunate incident is concerned, KPD officers shooting an individual in the back constitutes unjustified use of force therefore, unjustified homicide. Yes it is correct to conclude that the fleeing subject could have been apprehended at a later time via good old fashioned police work without causing further harm to any citizens. This is a common practice that is tried and true and is successfully utilized frequently throughout the US and other countries. Furthermore, the only true damage in this incident was the property damage caused by the alleged burglary suspects.

        As a veteran police officer with a large reputable southern agency, I see many flaws in the policing that takes place in New Hampshire. Quite frankly, the police officers I see during their performance of their duties are quite arrogant towards the general public and are very unapproachable. It as if the citizen is a burden to the officers. Think about it…when was the last time you saw an officer smiling, laughing or mingling with his/her citizen. I, for one cannot recall any officer laughing other than laughing or joking within their ranks. Judging from the past shootings in Keene and Swanzey, it would appear that the AG’s Office will exonerate/protect the officers. What a shame.

     

  34.     First of all, Burglary and Robbery are two different crimes. It is best to critique or Monday morning quarterback a scenario/incident by applying the correct law. No offense intended.
                                                              
                                    Generalization of each crime are as follows:                                                
          
        Burglary applies to entering a building or structure with the intent to commit a crime therein such as theft, assault, criminal mischief so on and so forth. I think you get the picture.

        Robbery involves the unlawful taking of property from a person (pay attention) by using force and placing that person in fear during the taking of that persons property.

        As far as this unfortunate incident is concerned, KPD officers shooting an individual in the back constitutes unjustified use of force therefore, unjustified homicide. Yes it is correct to conclude that the fleeing subject could have been apprehended at a later time via good old fashioned police work without causing further harm to any citizens. This is a common practice that is tried and true and is successfully utilized frequently throughout the US and other countries. Furthermore, the only true damage in this incident was the property damage caused by the alleged burglary suspects.

        As a veteran police officer with a large reputable southern agency, I see many flaws in the policing that takes place in New Hampshire. Quite frankly, the police officers I see during their performance of their duties are quite arrogant towards the general public and are very unapproachable. It as if the citizen is a burden to the officers. Think about it…when was the last time you saw an officer smiling, laughing or mingling with his/her citizen. I, for one cannot recall any officer laughing other than laughing or joking within their ranks. Judging from the past shootings in Keene and Swanzey, it would appear that the AG’s Office will exonerate/protect the officers. What a shame.

     

  35.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

    627:5 Physical Force in Law Enforcement

    II. A law enforcement officer is justified in using deadly force only when he reasonably believes such force is necessary:
          
    (b) To effect an arrest or prevent the escape from custody of a person whom he reasonably believes:

    (1) Has committed or is committing a felony involving the use of force or violence, is using a deadly weapon in attempting to escape, or otherwise indicates that he is likely to seriously endanger human life or inflict serious bodily injury unless apprehended without delay; and

    (2) He had made reasonable efforts to advise the person that he is a law enforcement officer attempting to effect an arrest and has reasonable grounds to believe that the person is aware of these facts.

  36.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner

    627:5 Physical Force in Law Enforcement

    II. A law enforcement officer is justified in using deadly force only when he reasonably believes such force is necessary:
          
    (b) To effect an arrest or prevent the escape from custody of a person whom he reasonably believes:

    (1) Has committed or is committing a felony involving the use of force or violence, is using a deadly weapon in attempting to escape, or otherwise indicates that he is likely to seriously endanger human life or inflict serious bodily injury unless apprehended without delay; and

    (2) He had made reasonable efforts to advise the person that he is a law enforcement officer attempting to effect an arrest and has reasonable grounds to believe that the person is aware of these facts.

  37.  well ,  thanks for posting that brad….

  38. well ,  thanks for posting that brad…….im still waiting on the particulars of what happened AT the shooting scene , to decide on this though……my tendency is that they over used force

  39.   Nice work. Keep in mind each state has its own version of Use of Force for LEOS. FYI, if you reference Wikipedia as a reference source beware that its can be edited by anyone therefore, it is not recognized as a reliable source. This holds true for all universities and is not allowed in any research as a valid reference source. Just thought you might like to know for future reference. Sorry but I am a stickler for the facts and accuracy. I guess this stems from my career as a LEO where I was a trainer of many officers and an investigator/detective. LEOS do not have the luxury of making even the simplest of mistakes which sometimes makes for many stressful days and nights, especially when the public has the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking. It is always easy to coach from the bleachers of from the sidewalk. As always, no offense intended.

  40.   Nice work. Keep in mind each state has its own version of Use of Force for LEOS. FYI, if you reference Wikipedia as a reference source beware that its can be edited by anyone therefore, it is not recognized as a reliable source. This holds true for all universities and is not allowed in any research as a valid reference source. Just thought you might like to know for future reference. Sorry but I am a stickler for the facts and accuracy. I guess this stems from my career as a LEO where I was a trainer of many officers and an investigator/detective. LEOS do not have the luxury of making even the simplest of mistakes which sometimes makes for many stressful days and nights, especially when the public has the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking. It is always easy to coach from the bleachers of from the sidewalk. As always, no offense intended.

  41.  If you all recall the Swanzey shooting on Keene Road at the Methadone Clinic involving Officer Robert Eckelson. The one glaring factor in that case was the fact that Eckleson reached in the subject’s vehicle to turn off the motor. That move by Eckleson is a cardinal sin in law enforcement. A move like that exacerbates the situation and elevates the threat level tenfold for both the subject, the officer and the surrounding community. In that particular situation, the offender was urinating and walked away from the officer. Yet Eckelson, (who had aggression issues while employed at KPD and later left under questionable circumstances) chose to endanger himself…not the subject in the vehicle…by entering a moving vehicle or a vehicle that was about to start moving. Eckelson lacked good judgement or common sense in that he intentionally put himself in harms way by not knowing what type(s) of weapons were in the vehicle the the subject may have had access to. Yet the AG’s office cleared Eckelson. How did they justify his decision to reach into the vehicle and purposely put himself in harms way?

  42.  If you all recall the Swanzey shooting on Keene Road at the Methadone Clinic involving Officer Robert Eckelson. The one glaring factor in that case was the fact that Eckleson reached in the subject’s vehicle to turn off the motor. That move by Eckleson is a cardinal sin in law enforcement. A move like that exacerbates the situation and elevates the threat level tenfold for both the subject, the officer and the surrounding community. In that particular situation, the offender was urinating and walked away from the officer. Yet Eckelson, (who had aggression issues while employed at KPD and later left under questionable circumstances) chose to endanger himself…not the subject in the vehicle…by entering a moving vehicle or a vehicle that was about to start moving. Eckelson lacked good judgement or common sense in that he intentionally put himself in harms way by not knowing what type(s) of weapons were in the vehicle the the subject may have had access to. Yet the AG’s office cleared Eckelson. How did they justify his decision to reach into the vehicle and purposely put himself in harms way?

  43. when someone robs you, then they are using force (often deadly force)

    how many criminals say “give me all your money or I will walk away and not bother you”

    the reason why criminals rob people and people comply, is due to the threat on their life. 

    someone robbing you, is a threat to your safety. 

    that threat is reason enough, especially when dealing with a criminal who could at any moment decide that he or she does not want any witnesses and turn the situation deadly. (at which point you may no longer be in a position where you can kill the criminal

  44. when someone robs you, then they are using force (often deadly force)

    how many criminals say “give me all your money or I will walk away and not bother you”

    the reason why criminals rob people and people comply, is due to the threat on their life. 

    someone robbing you, is a threat to your safety. 

    that threat is reason enough, especially when dealing with a criminal who could at any moment decide that he or she does not want any witnesses and turn the situation deadly. (at which point you may no longer be in a position where you can kill the criminal

  45. I’m so happy that New Hampshire has the “Stand your ground/No Retreat” law that would allow you to protect yourself from police officers. I used to drive a truck, often this would take me along the Turkish/Iranian border, I was never harassed, never bothered. I’ve had the same pleasant experiences driving through Bulgaria, Ukraine, etc. When I return to the U.S., I find that police officers in New England feel the need to arbitrarily pull me over just to see who I am and ask where I am going. Now that I know the New Hampshire “Peace-Keepers” don’t have a problem murdering people for being “suspects,” I know where I stand. They are militarizing and they are trampling your civil rights. Stand your ground.

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